Quote from: nbt on March 30, 2020, 20:18:45
I believe because both are 16 threads, AMD won't be faster in anything. I was seeing how New Xeon R is somewhat faster than Epyc both 48 threads w/o AVX and w/o changing architecture in 14nm++ still. It means AMD's much Higher L3 catche is not necessarily able to catch up to Intel (the Intel needed 25W more based on TDP which is not a lot in 205W). If intel increases catche in xeon ice lake, it will beat AMD badly they can do nothing.

You remind me of a guy who spams Anandtech claiming that L3 cache is the secret sauce to better performance. It's not quite that simple - they don't just get to "increase the cache" without redesigning most of the architecture around that.

Until Intel can show their 10nm Xeon designs in datacentre-level quantities, we'll have no idea how relevant they are to the market.

Quote from: dasndasdkas on March 29, 2020, 18:39:57

Quote from: william blake on March 29, 2020, 16:36:13

Quote from: Greffen on March 29, 2020, 15:14:33
Laptops using H class CPUs usually includes a discrete GPU. That makes the igpu reason null and void.

zen 2 is faster than any 14nm intel due to better energy efficiency :)

4800H boosts to 4.2Ghz, 10875H boosts to 5.1Ghz. The frequency deficit of the 4800H is too much, so in real world 10875H will be faster.
Gaming laptops are built for performance, not for efficiency so your argument doesn't hold up.

This kind of ill-informed spec-picking is very silly. You're assuming it will hit that speed in the average chassis (not guaranteed), that it can sustain the speed (unlikely) and that it makes much of a difference anyway (IPC differences between the architectures put its advantage at a maximum of 10%, *if it holds those clocks*).

The far higher thermal output from the lower efficiency means sacrifices in terms of chassis size, operating temperatures, fan noise, cost, decreased GPU operating clocks due to shared cooling/power in a laptop chassis... I've not met many gamers who don't care about at least some of those things; the ones who genuinely don't care will have a DTR with a desktop CPU.

AMD hit a blinder and Intel are doing their best to respond. They're still competitive - they'll just have to lower their prices, because they're now selling an objectively inferior product to their competitor.

I believe because both are 16 threads, AMD won't be faster in anything. I was seeing how New Xeon R is somewhat faster than Epyc both 48 threads w/o AVX and w/o changing architecture in 14nm++ still. It means AMD's much Higher L3 catche is not necessarily able to catch up to Intel (the Intel needed 25W more based on TDP which is not a lot in 205W). If intel increases catche in xeon ice lake, it will beat AMD badly they can do nothing.
This is good news for tiger lake, Intel opting for 10nm+, as xeon ice lake uses this node which became 2 TIMES Faster than Epyc w/ half the cores #.
Intel's ice lake laptop node was a generation behind and not so good. I wish yield of Intel 10nm+ will be better, as it is much ahead of AMD's 7nm, although, experts may say they are the same, I think the intel's much ahead in 10nm+.


Thank!

Quote from: Greffen on March 30, 2020, 06:00:19
Low end discrete GPU are around 10W to 25W, which is way lower power than that single 45W CPU. This is why its paired with U class CPUs. So no point using H class CPU alone when it will consume more power.

i know right? no fast cpu for you, dear customer, only with "gaming" attributes or "professional" cards. want fast cpu, just like in your desktop-you can go to hell, because we decided there is no such segment in the market.

Quote from: A on March 30, 2020, 00:26:19Not to mention considering AMD H processors give similar performance to low end GPUs like the MX series. Some manufacturers may simply opt for  an H processor over a low end gpu.

Low end discrete GPU are around 10W to 25W, which is way lower power than that single 45W CPU. This is why its paired with U class CPUs. So no point using H class CPU alone when it will consume more power.

@Greffen - That used to be the case, but Max-Q exists for a reason. Nowadays, thin and light gaming laptops are a thing.

Not to mention if you use your discrete gpu while on battery, you are gonna run out in an hour or 2. In comparison, the igpu can be used on the go for much much longer. Albeit you'd be at lower settings or limited to indie games

Not to mention considering AMD H processors give similar performance to low end GPUs like the MX series. Some manufacturers may simply opt for  an H processor over a low end gpu.

QuoteLooking at the benchmark result above, certainly not faster. .. LOL.

short burst+more energy used.
zen 2 vs 14nm lake is well known. amd is years ahead in technology, even if you say lol.

Quote4800H boosts to 4.2Ghz, 10875H boosts to 5.1Ghz. The frequency deficit of the 4800H is too much, so in real world 10875H will be faster.

check gaming frequencies please. you are just in the right place for it. real world for intel's H cpus is 3ghz not 5. plenty of reviews around.

Quote from: william blake on March 29, 2020, 16:36:13zen 2 is faster than any 14nm intel due to better energy efficiency :)

Looking at the benchmark result above, certainly not faster. .. LOL.

Quote from: A on March 29, 2020, 20:20:16@Greffen - No it doesn't. Sometimes loading up the discrete gpu is overkill.

H class CPUs are not typically used in thin and light laptops. Biggest percentage is in gaming laptops with discrete GPUs.  :p

I wouldn't be surprised if laptops with that cost 2X more than even the 4900H knowing intel.

@Greffen - No it doesn't. Sometimes loading up the discrete gpu is overkill.

@dasndasdkas  - I will remind that there is more to it than just ghz, there is also IPC. So it is IPC * ghz. There is also how sustainable that performance is.

Well, good look keeping it boosting to 5.1ghz. I suppose in Excel or Word it will probably hit those clocks. But in gaming i highly doubt that. After an hour of playing in any AAA title it will be good if i7 manages to stay above 3.6-3.8 ghz

Quote from: william blake on March 29, 2020, 16:36:13

Quote from: Greffen on March 29, 2020, 15:14:33
Laptops using H class CPUs usually includes a discrete GPU. That makes the igpu reason null and void.

zen 2 is faster than any 14nm intel due to better energy efficiency :)

4800H boosts to 4.2Ghz, 10875H boosts to 5.1Ghz. The frequency deficit of the 4800H is too much, so in real world 10875H will be faster.
Gaming laptops are built for performance, not for efficiency so your argument doesn't hold up. Don't get me wrong, 4800H is a nice CPU and I would buy it if I didn't had the money for the Intel product. But in the end 10875H will be faster.

Quote from: Greffen on March 29, 2020, 15:14:33
Laptops using H class CPUs usually includes a discrete GPU. That makes the igpu reason null and void.

zen 2 is faster than any 14nm intel due to better energy efficiency :)

8 core and i7 brand? thats fair. unlike 4-core i7 joke made from ice lake.

Quote from: Tovenn on March 29, 2020, 14:16:09Better buy the Ryzen7. Cheaper, faster, cooler, smaller node, more powerful, better igpu, less heat and less power usage.

Laptops using H class CPUs usually includes a discrete GPU. That makes the igpu reason null and void.

Better buy the Ryzen7. Cheaper, faster, cooler, smaller node, more powerful, better igpu, less heat and less power usage.