Quote from: S.Yu on March 08, 2020, 15:38:12I just did a quick search and many Thinkpads have these...

ThinkPads have trackpoint buttons and in many models they cannot be used properly with the touchpad because Lenovo firmware/Windows precision drivers have added a slight delay to the mouse movement/touchpad responding when the clicks of the TrackPoint are being used. The touchpad buttons are gone now in them too. ThinkPad laptops all now have clickpads with Trackpoint.

ps, I did not even write about 2 memory slots, this is obvious to anyone, as a mandatory requirement.

Shame for all industry - 45% NTSC(minimum is 72%) for "IPS", bad angles, bad native contrast (minimum is 1500:1). Bad brightness <=250 nit.

Shame for all сhinese manufacturers - bad keyboard layout. Digital block on 15.6/17.3 broken by right arrow key on place for insert key. Or bad enter/+ key, non-standart for desktop. Very bad thing - narrow Fx keys, instead of full ones on desktop variant. Quite often, even in the Thinkpad T+, the keyboard is completely insane. Almost the standard only in Omen 2018 15.6. He and the body is almost a standard. The ports are in the back, the rest are maximally pressed to the rear edge of the left and right.
The shame for the Dell G series (and the junior Alienware) is a terrible in tactile. keyboard - short stroke and bad easy key straightening with pressure on them, fingers after elastic desktop familiar keyboards (and normal in Thinkpad) simply fail and typing into the blind is impossible physically.

fake usb-c on most laptops. Deceiving stupid buyers who don't know that can simply install the  fake C(A port with C). Marketers often use this technique. But Lenovo is the most insolent in this matter.

The shame of the industry in that (purely by marketing redneck restrictions) is not the wiring of the outputs available in the hardware.
For example - Ice Lake has native support for Thunderbolt 3.0 and WiFi6 (AX) in SoС. A PHY layer for installing it to the connectors have is costs a penny, but they will be strangled, but they will not allow economical customers to get TB3.0 to usb-c and will never put it into a laptop for price $500-600 Intel AX201 card with CNVi interface and therefore worth a penny ($7).

They are more likely to strangle themselves than to install DDR4 3200 memory in a laptop with Ice Lake (as Lenovo shamefully does), although it costs literally a penny more than 2666 variants. At the same time, Acer installs 3200 on laptops with Whiskey Lake and Ryzen 3xxx, although there is higher DDR4 2400 no support! Such a transcendental level of idiocy and cretinism on the part of the morons of marketers must still be sought ...

They will choke put the RJ45 connector, although the controller itself is already inside and the PHY layer is again a penny and there's enough free space on the sides of the laptop. Lenovo S340 as example - Gigabit Ethernet Controller is detected by AIDA64, but no RJ45 with thin case!

And also a topic with artificial understatement of TDP Ryzen from many manufacturers. I know for sure that Lenovo and HP are quietly limiting Ryzen TDP to 11-12W (AC power), as a result, instead of a 15W processor, customers get a pumpkin by speed...but not a word is written about this on their sites. And all the ads are screaming - a 15W processor inside!

And manufacturers took a dumb fashion to put one 4-pin audio jack, and not yet on a separate board. but directly to the motherboard. And their quality does not stand up to criticism, especially in Asus, they break down just after a month sometimes. Soldering is terribly complicated. I have ESD soldering station and soldered it, believe me!
What prevents installing on the left and right side of the laptop on the same 4 pin audio jack? Excessive greed only. Kind of chips have long been multi-channel and cost a penny!
I have 3 interchangeable audio jacks in my laptop from MSI 2008 (line in/out/microphone/headphone on all three ports!) And in one of them there is an optical SPDIF for galvanic isolation with laptop power circuits when connecting a quality external DACs

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The reference 15.6 laptop should have:

1. most of the ports in the back (including power or the plug should be angled, and not stick out to the side like idiots in Dell, even in the business series)

2. At least 2 audio connectors with 4 pins (left and right, so that it is convenient and right-handed and left-handed). And better than 3 so that you can quickly arrange 5.1 on analog speakers somewhere. As it was before in 2008. And one optical SPDIF as mandatory!

3. IPS must be at least 280 ppi. 75% + NTSC (with strong and accuracy sRGB profile!). And no less than 1500: 1 native contrast. Not less than 300 nits. Flicker Free by Sign on Box.

4. The keyboard should be STANDARD - all buttons are the same size with the desktop (Fx mandatory!). Normal digital block, without Chinese perversions. With normal tactile communication and stroke depth.

5. Keyboard backlit should be flexibly configured in BIOS and OS. The time it for automatically turns off (0..60 sec), the brightness level. No ugly reds and greens light - just cool white or RGB.

6. When running on battery power, the processor must be able to run at full TDP (nominal) without restriction. As it was 10 years ago. So that there is no such shame as in the Dell G series, where the i7 9750H from the battery (15-19W TDP) works slower (CBR15 = 495) than my Ryzen 3500U on 11W TDP (CBR15 = 630!)! This is a form of shame for gaming laptops when their cut 11W processor!

7. For a 2020 laptop (in the fall, I think) Display Port 2.0 (Entry level for 8k monitors) and HDMI 2.1 (Entry Level for Dynamic HDR) are required, even at the level of gpu built into SoC

8. Any laptop must have Dolby Headphone support, but not the shame that started with Windows Vista +, but the level that is in XP with Realtek DH setup (trimmed from the settings starting with Vista) and in PowerDVD settings. Sonic in W10 sucks in headphones!

9.The cooling system should eliminate any noise in the office load and surfing (including YouTube with clips of any frequency and resolution). Coolers generally should not turn on or make noise on the verge of audibility and monotonous noise without a high-frequency and low-frequency component. Cooler management should be directly accessible in the BIOS and in the OS, and with editing the curve of the increase in speed depending on the temperature.

10. Minimum two M.2 pci-e x2 (2280). Or M.2+2.5" SATA slot.

11. Wi-Fi antennas, if the cover is metal, should have a 360-degree view, i.e. have a plastic insert. Or the cover should be made of carbon fiber or very high quality ABS. And not like in laptops with metal, where 180 degrees are closed due to which the exchange rate drops sharply.

Cheers!

Quote from: xpclient on March 07, 2020, 23:01:13

Quote from: Daniel Eriksson on March 04, 2020, 21:17:14
One thing that is a dealbreaker for me: no physical mouse buttons. Many of the programs I use are terribly messy to use without those, especially when it comes to things like middle-clicks. Silly gestures is not a replacement for a work-focused workflow, not to mention it's nice to be able to rest my fingers without risking to activate some random touch event. In many situations, such as train commute, a portable mouse is not an option either. If a laptop don't have separate physical mouse buttons I won't consider it. The new Vaio might become my next laptop, or one of Fujitus models.

This is my no. 1 criteria when buying laptops too. No touchpad buttons=no sale. Only brands left offering touchpad buttons on ultrabooks are Fujitsu and Vaio. Dell offers it in some Latitude business laptops. Lenovo, HP, Alienware and many others have buttons for touchpad in their gaming laptops. But in ultrabooks it is nearly impossible to find.

I just did a quick search and many Thinkpads have these...

Quote from: Daniel Eriksson on March 04, 2020, 21:17:14
One thing that is a dealbreaker for me: no physical mouse buttons. Many of the programs I use are terribly messy to use without those, especially when it comes to things like middle-clicks. Silly gestures is not a replacement for a work-focused workflow, not to mention it's nice to be able to rest my fingers without risking to activate some random touch event. In many situations, such as train commute, a portable mouse is not an option either. If a laptop don't have separate physical mouse buttons I won't consider it. The new Vaio might become my next laptop, or one of Fujitus models.

This is my no. 1 criteria when buying laptops too. No touchpad buttons=no sale. Only brands left offering touchpad buttons on ultrabooks are Fujitsu and Vaio. Dell offers it in some Latitude business laptops. Lenovo, HP, Alienware and many others have buttons for touchpad in their gaming laptops. But in ultrabooks it is nearly impossible to find.

One thing that is a dealbreaker for me: no physical mouse buttons. Many of the programs I use are terribly messy to use without those, especially when it comes to things like middle-clicks. Silly gestures is not a replacement for a work-focused workflow, not to mention it's nice to be able to rest my fingers without risking to activate some random touch event. In many situations, such as train commute, a portable mouse is not an option either. If a laptop don't have separate physical mouse buttons I won't consider it. The new Vaio might become my next laptop, or one of Fujitus models.

1. bad display. When hardware gets old (CPU+GPU are not upgradeable after all), my PCs serve as light multimedia stations, backup PCs, or "desktop office". So display should have high sRGB and AdobeRGB coverage, be bright enough and with high enough resolution.
2. no Dual Channel RAM - for obvious reasons. No difference if it'll be replaceable, soldered or half-soldered.

That's it ^^
Insides will get old no matter what we'll choose, so I look at performance/price optimal models, based on what I'm willing to spend.
Connectivity - I've invested in USB 3.0 HUB not because I had not enough ports on current laptop, I bought it since at home I plug mouse, keyboard, phone charger each evening and unplug each morning - It's pure laziness and aesthetics.
As for HDMi or DP - every conference room should have those, and VGA, and DVI, and mini/micro adapters

My deal-breakers:

- 'Fn' button instead of 'Ctrl'. Even if it's swappable in BIOS.
- Non-SSD disk.
- audible fan in idle or during typical office tasks.
- weight greater than 1.5-1.6 kg.
- lack of HDMI 2.0.
- lack of at least 2 USB ports.
- lack of 3.5 audio jack.
- soldered RAM or disk.
- glossy screen or case (even some parts of the case is a no-no).
- lack of adequate cooling solution.

Keyboard Layout

For touch typing and text editing, I'm having a lot of trouble with keyboards that shift the right ctrl key to the left to make room for arrow keys.   My right ring finger is less flexible, and when the right ctrl key is to the left of the '/' key, my ring finger hits the key insecurely with the fingernail, which can't feel the key edges.  I frequently hit the left arrow key by mistake. I currently attach a portable external keyboard with good layout when at a desk, but would prefer that the laptop keyboard have good layout so I can more productively use it on my lap.

I also have trouble with keyboards that place a page-up key above the left arrow key.  The left-arrow key is a very frequently used key for editing typos, and while touch typing, it is far too easy to miss and hit the page-up key.  That is a productivity disaster because the cursor is moved far from its intended location and it breaks concentration to undo it.  (page-dn often only gets the cursor back into the general area, not in the same spot on the line, especially if other keys were typed before halting to fix the error.)

For editing text and spreadsheets, the home and end keys move the cursor to the beginning and end of the line, and shift-home and shift-end select the prefix or the rest of the line.  I like to be able to do these quickly with one hand, so I can position the cursor with the mouse and then shift-home or shift-end while the mouse hand is returning to the keyboard.  (Many keyboards require an Fn key chord to type home or end.  Typing  shift-fn-home is a slower, awkward operation, and requires two hands on most keyboards.)  So the home and end keys must be separate keys that are near the shift key.  The navigation column is good for this.  The home and end keys on a numberpad also good.

In stores I have tried a few notebook keyboards which satisfy the above, but the touchpad is so large or sensitive or not centered on the home keys, that when I touch type normally with corners of palm on the palm rest, the cursor jumps around because of poor palm rejection. 

Keyboard requirements:
- right ctrl key must easily reached by pinky finger while hands are in home position for touch typing.
- left-arrow key must be easily reached by pinky finger while hands are in home position for touch typing, and adjacent to no keys that move the cursor far away (such as page-up).
- end and home keys must be separate keys, and it must be easy to type shift-end and shift-home with one hand.
- both alt keys must be easily reachable by thumbs (too far and it causes repetitive strain injury).  (An overwide space bar is a bad sign.)
- touchpad must not move the cusor while touch typing with outside corner of palms resting on the palm rest.  (Test with multiple hand sizes.)

(I prefer full size arrow keys.  An overlong right-shift key and half-hight arrow keys are bad signs.)

For me I game with it on my lap, in same room as TV so on top of all the obvious things:
Good quality and size Screen
Nice build quality
Quite quiet
Decent graphics

I also need a CENTRAL air intake so my legs don't block it (they will be under the sides)
And the exhaust should also be at back / hinge
So the sides should not be involved in cooling system, should stay cool

I currently use Samsung Series 7 Chronos 780Z5E, nearly 7 years old, no plans to upgrade  :p 8)

I use a laptop on my lap, so I don't like a laptop that doesn't work well on a lap. Such as running hot because the vents are blocked, or it just doesn't stay cool and fan runs too much and is annoying watching a video. I bought a MacBook Air for the retina screen quality and the low powered duel core CPU that run cool even streaming video. After trying a Dell XPS 13 and finding it simply ran too hot to use as a laptop I chose the MacBook Air. The fan vents were also a problem with the XPS on my lap which aggravated the heat issue.

1. silent(fanless,ssd)
2. have 2 usb c port
3. thick keyboard backlight

NO cheap TN / 768p. Would prefer IPS 1080p or 1440p. Indoors, don't need 400 nits.
no running hot or throttling (e.g. i5 8265u running 4 cores at 3.1 GHZ instead of 3.7GHZ). Quad core preferred but if they ever come out with a 6 GHZ dual core that would be lit.
Build quality, repairability and availability of parts is important to me. Ideally it would be held together with two screws for easy upgradability/maintenance :P
Can't weigh more than 5 pounds because I walk a couple miles 4x/week and will carry textbooks
modern iGPU for playing the games i like - something like intel UHD or vega 8
Would like 1 year warranty or a cheaper price. Further warranty support questionable due to living in a small town in the middle of the ocean.
Model should be out for at least one year to catch early problems. (Lat 7390, Motile BIOS, ThinkPads bad thunderbolt firmware)
Price is important, buy refurb/used. $400 seems to be the in-practice limit for these demands (since 8th gen intel or Ryzen 2000/3000 is pretty recent). If i gave up the igpu demand i could get everything I want for $200 e.g. sum1 sold a Lat E5470 i7 6820HQ locally for $199 a few weeks ago... Is an iGPU and slightly newer laptop really worth an extra $200... I think I played myself :(

Apple logo.

Bright Matte Screen (500+ nits)
User replaceable SSD
Multiple Type C ports + USB PD charging faster than discharge
<5 lb and <.8" thick + good battery

That's it, yet even still very very few laptops check those boxes.