Quote from: william blake on February 22, 2020, 02:54:07Quote from: hmpf on February 21, 2020, 09:16:53of course they are binned. so what is you point? my 15/45w laptop will consume 0,5w more at idle than 15w? 1 fps less than 45w?
They aren't "the same" and it's not just about wattage. Due to manufacturing variations some chips are only good enough to work at a higher voltage with more cores enabled while others might have fewer working cores but be good enough to work at higher frequencies, and yet others are good enough to work at ultra-low-voltages. Same if you look at the 12, 16, 20core cpu's, a 12core cpu is just a 20core cpu with 8 cores "disabled", those 8 "disabled" cores might in reality be broken due to production-quality variations / manufacturing defects.
The 45W TDP cpu's, even though "same die according to spec" likely doesn't pass the testing at the lower voltages required to fit the lower power-envelope for the ULV-cpu's while still being able to run at the required frequency. if all chips could run at full speed at ultra-low-voltage they would likely just announce a huge breakthrough in power-savings to the industry..
current 15w chips are unable to work at 45w? and vice versa?
this meme is ridiculous:(
Quote from: hmpf on February 21, 2020, 09:16:53of course they are binned. so what is you point? my 15/45w laptop will consume 0,5w more at idle than 15w? 1 fps less than 45w?
They aren't "the same" and it's not just about wattage. Due to manufacturing variations some chips are only good enough to work at a higher voltage with more cores enabled while others might have fewer working cores but be good enough to work at higher frequencies, and yet others are good enough to work at ultra-low-voltages. Same if you look at the 12, 16, 20core cpu's, a 12core cpu is just a 20core cpu with 8 cores "disabled", those 8 "disabled" cores might in reality be broken due to production-quality variations / manufacturing defects.
The 45W TDP cpu's, even though "same die according to spec" likely doesn't pass the testing at the lower voltages required to fit the lower power-envelope for the ULV-cpu's while still being able to run at the required frequency. if all chips could run at full speed at ultra-low-voltage they would likely just announce a huge breakthrough in power-savings to the industry..
Quote from: william blake on February 21, 2020, 02:17:33Quote from: Joel Kleppinger on February 21, 2020, 00:55:21Quote from: william blake on February 20, 2020, 23:44:06no worries, i know what im talking about. do you understand how small these 45w(cpu+gpu) laptops could be? 13 inches zenbook, vivobook, switch, envy, etc..1,2-1,3kg, they are all with 15w(12-35) cpu+discrete mx150/250, which is not less than 45w(35-54) cpu with igpu.
The issue isn't a performance one like you suppose. It is one of cooling/size/weight. Cooling 45W is much harder than cooling 15W. To do so effectively requires a bigger cooling system, and thus, a bigger laptop.
put h-renoir in it and give me a button to turn between 15 and 45 modes.
They aren't "the same" and it's not just about wattage. Due to manufacturing variations some chips are only good enough to work at a higher voltage with more cores enabled while others might have fewer working cores but be good enough to work at higher frequencies, and yet others are good enough to work at ultra-low-voltages. Same if you look at the 12, 16, 20core cpu's, a 12core cpu is just a 20core cpu with 8 cores "disabled", those 8 "disabled" cores might in reality be broken due to production-quality variations / manufacturing defects.
The 45W TDP cpu's, even though "same die according to spec" likely doesn't pass the testing at the lower voltages required to fit the lower power-envelope for the ULV-cpu's while still being able to run at the required frequency. if all chips could run at full speed at ultra-low-voltage they would likely just announce a huge breakthrough in power-savings to the industry..
Quote from: Joel Kleppinger on February 21, 2020, 00:55:21Quote from: william blake on February 20, 2020, 23:44:06no worries, i know what im talking about. do you understand how small these 45w(cpu+gpu) laptops could be? 13 inches zenbook, vivobook, switch, envy, etc..1,2-1,3kg, they are all with 15w(12-35) cpu+discrete mx150/250, which is not less than 45w(35-54) cpu with igpu.
The issue isn't a performance one like you suppose. It is one of cooling/size/weight. Cooling 45W is much harder than cooling 15W. To do so effectively requires a bigger cooling system, and thus, a bigger laptop.
put h-renoir in it and give me a button to turn between 15 and 45 modes.
Quote from: william blake on February 20, 2020, 23:44:06
i want? we all want. 15-45w switch, software or button, who can say no?
these chips are the same, their bios settings are different, in case someone think they are manufactured differently.
where is a big waste, i dont get it?
Quote from: hmpf on February 20, 2020, 21:38:03i want? we all want. 15-45w switch, software or button, who can say no?
Sounds like a pretty big waste to aim for an ultraportable business laptop with long baterylife and longing for a beefier CPU when it sounds like a P series is exactly what you want. Those come with 6-core 45W TDP cpu's as an option and they're even cheaper than the "ultraportable" X series.
Quote from: william blake on February 20, 2020, 21:00:04Quote from: hmpf on February 20, 2020, 20:15:293 people out of 30 i know, carries their laptops all day or part of the day. the rest-stationary home machines or room-to-room home machines.
A huge power envelope is just totally useless for most users. It's way more important to have enough batterylife so you can comfortably use it for a full workday and still have at least a couple of hours left at the end of the day.
also, imagine 45w tdp skus with the ability working in 15w mode. all problems solved, you have power and mobility, depends on your wishes.
Quote from: hmpf on February 20, 2020, 20:15:293 people out of 30 i know, carries their laptops all day or part of the day. the rest-stationary home machines or room-to-room home machines.
A huge power envelope is just totally useless for most users. It's way more important to have enough batterylife so you can comfortably use it for a full workday and still have at least a couple of hours left at the end of the day.
Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 20, 2020, 19:19:46Quote from: hmpf on February 20, 2020, 18:37:20Quote from: davids on February 20, 2020, 10:26:56
I wish they would bring the new 35/45W AMD 4000H chips to Thinkpads. These low power chips are not for serious work.
"Real work" is definitely relative. I code in terminal, ssh to stuff and have a 120 tabs open in the browser.. I do plenty of work without almost any cpu requirements, but i need at least 16GB ram.
Add to the fact that most modern games are more GPU-heavy. But the issue arises if the laptop has just an FHD display, which then puts some load on the CPU as well.
I can totally understand why someone would want a 45W chip, though. It does allow some extra headroom for the CPU to flex its muscles. Laptops with ULV chips are sometimes designed so thin that the CPU's peak performance is not attainable due to thermals.
Quote from: william blake on February 20, 2020, 17:52:43Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 20, 2020, 16:13:35personally, i feel thunderbolt does suck. because they sell it like something very premium. thunderbolt 3 is how old, 5 years? its a freaking protocol with a freaking cheap chip or part of the chip.
Personally, I feel AMD should directly go for USB 4 support instead of Thunderbolt.
so, i dont care about this crap anymore, it pisses me off. usb 3 is enough for me i guess, at least i can be sure it will cost 3 dollars for me not 100.
Quote from: hmpf on February 20, 2020, 18:37:20Quote from: davids on February 20, 2020, 10:26:56
I wish they would bring the new 35/45W AMD 4000H chips to Thinkpads. These low power chips are not for serious work.
"Real work" is definitely relative. I code in terminal, ssh to stuff and have a 120 tabs open in the browser.. I do plenty of work without almost any cpu requirements, but i need at least 16GB ram.
Quote from: davids on February 20, 2020, 10:26:56
I wish they would bring the new 35/45W AMD 4000H chips to Thinkpads. These low power chips are not for serious work.
Quote from: Vaidyanathan on February 20, 2020, 16:13:35personally, i feel thunderbolt does suck. because they sell it like something very premium. thunderbolt 3 is how old, 5 years? its a freaking protocol with a freaking cheap chip or part of the chip.
Personally, I feel AMD should directly go for USB 4 support instead of Thunderbolt.
Quote from: xpclient on February 20, 2020, 12:34:39
I fear they won't have touchpad buttons, Thunderbolt 3 and NVIDIA graphics - I need all 3 along with the AMD CPU.
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