While the popular narrative has been that Huawei has been banned because if spying, they were officially put on the do-no-business list because they sold and delivered hardware containing US-designed hw/sw components to a country under sanctions: Iran.

While Trump has been fear-mongering and media helped him spread FUD for his political agenda, this is the only reason so far that US is officially using to ban Huawei and not any other Chinese company. This means that this is probably the only thing they have proof of that can stand in their own legal system.

Whats Funny with the Huawei ban is realistically it is china that makes 70% of the worlds mobile phones and as a guestimate around 60% of all products worldwide as seemingly everything has the trademark 'Made in China' so its highly comical that the US is banning huawei china should just stop supplying Us with products and theyd be screwed.

Umm somebody else was caught red handed, PRISM, FISA Court, Snowden? oh no the Chinese are doing the same.

It's less about security (why should I pick one country over other when both are prying) and more about egos / economics

obviously, American equipment have backdoors for american intelligence and vice-versa + Apple / Qualcomm are being beaten by Huawei, BBK Electronics and Xiaomi

What is wrong with everyone ? Google and Facebook have been tracking our emails photos locations contacts and who know what else for YEARS and "we" seem to be ok with that so why do I care if the Chinese gov is watching me ?? AND has anyone realized this is more about money than privacy ? Huawei is killing apple both in phone sales and their new 5G tec is taking Billions in profit that the US wishes it could have. It should have been obvious by the fact this all started with a US / Chine trade war. Trump has lied to us basically every time he opens his mouth and thus lost respect of (what I'm guessing is) every other country on the planet so should we believe what he says about Huawei but can't prove ?
PS my P30 phone makes apple seem like garbage by comparison and for half the price too. Shame on apple

Quote from: Spunjji on February 12, 2020, 16:01:32

Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:50:08

Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
So, at the beginning, you claim they have been caught red handed, they have been spying, but then the article says they have the ability? What's this? There is a big difference between having the ability and being caught doing it. Do you really have to treat us like we're idiots with those headlines?

You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.

That's not what *your* article says, though. It says the US claims to have evidence that the back door exists and *could* be used, not that they claim to have proof of it having been used. The title and opening paragraph directly imply that it *has been / is being used*, which is misleading in the context of the information you provide here.

Personally, while I have little doubt that Huawei would use such backdoors as and when suits them, I still find it very rich that the US government are crying wolf over this when we know full well that they engage in the exact same behaviour. The FBI even attempted a smear campaign against Apple for refusing to create security holes in their devices.

You are right, my bad. Should have added "allegedly" to the title and all would have been more clear. It won't happen again, I promise. :)
Yes, I totally agree with you that the US government is crying wolf only when it suits them well. I think this is more of a business-related battle than anything else. I would add some extra thoughts, but I am afraid that I would get way too biased, so I'll keep them to myself.

Quote from: drspychology on February 12, 2020, 13:07:16
Why is there a backdoor in the first place? I doubt that the american government has been more careful with the data than Huawei. This always feels like the pot calling the kettle black: Huawei gets banned for "allegedly" going through people's data, while the US government and US companies have been proven to use and sell personal data, yet they don't get punished? Also, I don't know how trustworthy data from a China-hating government is on this.

No government is entirely trustworthy, so we can only assume that they are telling the truth... or not.

Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:50:08

Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
So, at the beginning, you claim they have been caught red handed, they have been spying, but then the article says they have the ability? What's this? There is a big difference between having the ability and being caught doing it. Do you really have to treat us like we're idiots with those headlines?

You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.

That's not what *your* article says, though. It says the US claims to have evidence that the back door exists and *could* be used, not that they claim to have proof of it having been used. The title and opening paragraph directly imply that it *has been / is being used*, which is misleading in the context of the information you provide here.

Personally, while I have little doubt that Huawei would use such backdoors as and when suits them, I still find it very rich that the US government are crying wolf over this when we know full well that they engage in the exact same behaviour. The FBI even attempted a smear campaign against Apple for refusing to create security holes in their devices.

Quote from: Stephen Lindsey on February 12, 2020, 10:55:58
The Times this morning has a front page article about a CIA operation fronted by a swiss equipment manufacturer that spied on 120 countries for years. Can we please have a notebookchat erticle on this

Somehow your comment has been totally ignored. I'm guessing that it's too uncomfortable to answer to that without showing double standards.

Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:56:00

Quote from: Anonymous on February 12, 2020, 12:46:13
Why is the writer of this article assuming that it is now confirmed Huawei has been spying, when this is just another political news coming from US-based media representing the voice of the US government? As a tech journalist, you could've used wordings like 'reportedly' or 'The Wall Street Journal says' especially for a highly sensitive topic like this.

It's not just the US government, unfortunately. Huawei isn't that clean, either.

Those articles are nothing to do with the one you wrote therefore do not back up a claim that you made in this article, unfortunately. You're diverting the subject now. I'm not saying they are entirely clean, but that still doesn't give you entitlement to name and write this article in such a conclusive manner IMO.

Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
If you're thinking of the same incident, I believe the beauty of that hole was that only the creator knew whether it really existed. The committee determined it was suspicious when it was submitted, that there is a way to craft the values such that you have a backdoor, but I believe it would be mathematically hard to find the backdoor. Only the author had it.

I would like to add that this is actually an important condition. The NSA has no interest in making US systems vulnerable to foreign attack. They're interested in holes where they're confident they're the only ones who can use them. Ideally, there is also a plausible deniability component, meaning it can't be proven it was intentional and can be passed off as a bug/ mistake if discovered.

A funny possibility is that the US government is whining because Huawei won't share access, making it more difficult for them to snoop around. :-)

Quote from: Codrut Nistor on February 12, 2020, 12:50:08
You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.

It's unclear whether that means they noticed a backdoor or caught Huawei using it. I still think the headline and lead paragraph are inflated and sensationalist. I know it's the tone of this day and age, but I don't like it. I know facts might seem sometimes boring, but I like to see what I'm getting. If US government claims Huawei spied, then say US government claims Huawei spied. And not Huawei spied.

Thank you.

Why is there a backdoor in the first place? I doubt that the american government has been more careful with the data than Huawei. This always feels like the pot calling the kettle black: Huawei gets banned for "allegedly" going through people's data, while the US government and US companies have been proven to use and sell personal data, yet they don't get punished? Also, I don't know how trustworthy data from a China-hating government is on this.

Quote from: Anonymous on February 12, 2020, 12:46:13
Why is the writer of this article assuming that it is now confirmed Huawei has been spying, when this is just another political news coming from US-based media representing the voice of the US government? As a tech journalist, you could've used wordings like 'reportedly' or 'The Wall Street Journal says' especially for a highly sensitive topic like this.

It's not just the US government, unfortunately. Huawei isn't that clean, either.

https://www.newser.com/story/269814/poland-we-caught-huawei-manager-spying-for-china.html
https://bgr.com/2019/08/14/huawei-spying-political-opposition-in-africa/

Quote from: _MT_ on February 12, 2020, 12:39:16
So, at the beginning, you claim they have been caught red handed, they have been spying, but then the article says they have the ability? What's this? There is a big difference between having the ability and being caught doing it. Do you really have to treat us like we're idiots with those headlines?

You almost caught ME red-handed! However, if you paid attention a bit later in the article, the US _claims_ to have been caught the Chinese using the backdoor since 2009. If they have solid proof or not, that's another discussion.

Thank you very much for the time spent writing your comment. Excellent stuff.

Why is the writer of this article assuming that it is now confirmed Huawei has been spying, when this is just another political news coming from US-based media representing the voice of the US government? As a tech journalist, you could've used wordings like 'reportedly' or 'The Wall Street Journal says' especially for a highly sensitive topic like this.