Quote from: Astar on September 16, 2019, 21:48:17

Quote from: S.Yu on September 16, 2019, 18:36:39

Quote from: Astar on September 15, 2019, 13:29:00
If you can't find space for a tiny 3.5mm audio jack costing mere pennies in component/assembly price, when even the slimmest lightest smartphones can have them, you are a pathetic and lousy phone or laptop designer/manufacturer. Period. Find another job and another life.

Are people really so dumb as to believe predatory manufacturers like Apple that want to scrimp & save on pennies to screw consumers for higher profits? They eliminate the 3.5mm jack to AVOID having to include a US$5 handsfree wired ear piece. That's 5 bucks  (or whatever volume pricing they get) of extra pure profit to their bottom line. PLUS US$199 to sell you a f-ugly looking Oral B electric toothbrush to stick in your ear - with lousy quality sound (compared to Sony as an example)!

The volume pricing of free earphones? $1 I bet, if not less.
As for the C port, AFAIK it's slightly thinner than the 3.5, so it could make sense in extremely thin devices, but only then.

I was giving CrApple the benefit of the doubt, and also the fact that bundled wired handsfree sets have to have a minimum quality or they will make the phone brand look bad. Not that CrApple's are any good... they are crap. Its also based on a roughly 3X or 4X multiple based on the purchase price. iPhones typically have a BOM/assembly cost of U$200++ but they retail for about US$800 to $1000. But that is pointless quibbling on your part.

Also, what rubbish about Type-C being slightly thinner than 3.5mm jack? Its the apologists like you that give these predatory manufacturers the excuses to remove them. There is no excuse whatsoever from the point of view of size!

They came up with this themselves, and they don't need a proper excuse anyway, like how Samsung removed it citing 100mah battery increase.

Quote from: Dan6 on September 14, 2019, 09:01:51
Not really, I use either an external DAC or just wireless headphones depending on where I am.

You're not getting it. Most ultraportable/ultrabook/slim laptops don't even have enough USB ports! I'd never want to waste one on music!

Quote from: SAW on September 14, 2019, 10:23:48
The last 5 years do not use. I have Marshall wireless.

If you work long enough in front of a laptop, which is all day for many people, how often would you have to interrupt your music to charge your wireless headphones? At least 2 or 3 times a day if you include use during commuting. I don't have time to charge yet another device all the time.

Besides, try buying an entry level professional quality wired in-ear from the likes of Shure and you will realise that the quality is much better than your Marshall!

Quote from: S.Yu on September 16, 2019, 18:36:39

Quote from: Astar on September 15, 2019, 13:29:00
If you can't find space for a tiny 3.5mm audio jack costing mere pennies in component/assembly price, when even the slimmest lightest smartphones can have them, you are a pathetic and lousy phone or laptop designer/manufacturer. Period. Find another job and another life.

Are people really so dumb as to believe predatory manufacturers like Apple that want to scrimp & save on pennies to screw consumers for higher profits? They eliminate the 3.5mm jack to AVOID having to include a US$5 handsfree wired ear piece. That's 5 bucks  (or whatever volume pricing they get) of extra pure profit to their bottom line. PLUS US$199 to sell you a f-ugly looking Oral B electric toothbrush to stick in your ear - with lousy quality sound (compared to Sony as an example)!

The volume pricing of free earphones? $1 I bet, if not less.
As for the C port, AFAIK it's slightly thinner than the 3.5, so it could make sense in extremely thin devices, but only then.

I was giving CrApple the benefit of the doubt, and also the fact that bundled wired handsfree sets have to have a minimum quality or they will make the phone brand look bad. Not that CrApple's are any good... they are crap. Its also based on a roughly 3X or 4X multiple based on the purchase price. iPhones typically have a BOM/assembly cost of U$200++ but they retail for about US$800 to $1000. But that is pointless quibbling on your part.

Also, what rubbish about Type-C being slightly thinner than 3.5mm jack? Its the apologists like you that give these predatory manufacturers the excuses to remove them. There is no excuse whatsoever from the point of view of size!

Quote from: Astar on September 15, 2019, 13:29:00
If you can't find space for a tiny 3.5mm audio jack costing mere pennies in component/assembly price, when even the slimmest lightest smartphones can have them, you are a pathetic and lousy phone or laptop designer/manufacturer. Period. Find another job and another life.

Are people really so dumb as to believe predatory manufacturers like Apple that want to scrimp & save on pennies to screw consumers for higher profits? They eliminate the 3.5mm jack to AVOID having to include a US$5 handsfree wired ear piece. That's 5 bucks  (or whatever volume pricing they get) of extra pure profit to their bottom line. PLUS US$199 to sell you a f-ugly looking Oral B electric toothbrush to stick in your ear - with lousy quality sound (compared to Sony as an example)!

My wired Shure in-ears offer far better sound quality than any crappy BT wireless earphones costing 2 to 3 times more! Believe me, I've compared them. Lots of lap tests have also proven it.

Besides it never needs charging - important when I'm in front of my laptop for 8-16 hrs a day! How many times would you have to interrupt your music to charge your BT thingies? And you have to throw it away when the li-ion batteries leak or wear out. That's usually 1 year away.

If I really need wireless functionality for sports like running or cycling,
I can always connect the Shure RMCE-BT2 High-Resolution Bluetooth 5.0 Communication Cable to it.

I can get the idea of Type-C only laptops but that's only if there are at least two or more Type-C ports. The point being that Type-C has far better universal functionality for PD charging/discharging, audio/video output, high bandwidth data transfer/Ethernet/TB etc. - especially with USB4 - while occupying less space than a Type-A USB.

But a 3.5mm jack is still smaller than a Type-C!

In practice, you would need at least three Type-Cs in such a laptop, because one would be used for charging. Any less and you would not be able to transfer data between two external devices directly (out of say harddisks/SSDs, cams, media cards, phone etc.). We're not talking about yet more external plug-in dongles/hubs here!

Which brings us back to the point - using a precious USB port (whatever kind) just to output sound all day is an incredible waste of a precious resource! Its counter-intuitive and only ends up wasting more space on a laptop!

The volume pricing of free earphones? $1 I bet, if not less.
As for the C port, AFAIK it's slightly thinner than the 3.5, so it could make sense in extremely thin devices, but only then.

I want an audio jack!

I use the headphone jack for all sorts of things - microphone headset for Skype / gaming, earphones for music when travelling, output to my stereo for music / video when at home.

Removing them from phones was always a stupid idea and removing them from laptops makes even less sense.

I won't buy a new phone or tablet because of this new stupid trend. Goes without saying a won't buy a laptop without a headphone jack.

No headphone jack, no deal! That goes for laptops and cell phones. I use that port daily on all my devices.

Backward compatibility is important

Definetely want an audio jack. Am using it on a daily basis

If you can't find space for a tiny 3.5mm audio jack costing mere pennies in component/assembly price, when even the slimmest lightest smartphones can have them, you are a pathetic and lousy phone or laptop designer/manufacturer. Period. Find another job and another life.

Are people really so dumb as to believe predatory manufacturers like Apple that want to scrimp & save on pennies to screw consumers for higher profits? They eliminate the 3.5mm jack to AVOID having to include a US$5 handsfree wired ear piece. That's 5 bucks  (or whatever volume pricing they get) of extra pure profit to their bottom line. PLUS US$199 to sell you a f-ugly looking Oral B electric toothbrush to stick in your ear - with lousy quality sound (compared to Sony as an example)!

My wired Shure in-ears offer far better sound quality than any crappy BT wireless earphones costing 2 to 3 times more! Believe me, I've compared them. Lots of lap tests have also proven it.

Besides it never needs charging - important when I'm in front of my laptop for 8-16 hrs a day! How many times would you have to interrupt your music to charge your BT thingies? And you have to throw it away when the li-ion batteries leak or wear out. That's usually 1 year away.

If I really need wireless functionality for sports like running or cycling,
I can always connect the Shure RMCE-BT2 High-Resolution Bluetooth 5.0 Communication Cable to it.

I can get the idea of Type-C only laptops but that's only if there are at least two or more Type-C ports. The point being that Type-C has far better universal functionality for PD charging/discharging, audio/video output, high bandwidth data transfer/Ethernet/TB etc. - especially with USB4 - while occupying less space than a Type-A USB.

But a 3.5mm jack is still smaller than a Type-C!

In practice, you would need at least three Type-Cs in such a laptop, because one would be used for charging. Any less and you would not be able to transfer data between two external devices directly (out of say harddisks/SSDs, cams, media cards, phone etc.). We're not talking about yet more external plug-in dongles/hubs here!

Which brings us back to the point - using a precious USB port (whatever kind) just to output sound all day is an incredible waste of a precious resource! Its counter-intuitive and only ends up wasting more space on a laptop!

Quote from: Daniel Eriksson on September 14, 2019, 23:32:42
What's most important on my next laptop though is having separate physical buttons for the touchpad so I can do advanced work comfortably, use middle-click actions easily, never accidentally click on something and never have to use uncomfortable gestures for simple things. These days I just look at a picture of a new model and immediately know if I want it or not - no physical touchpad buttons - no deal. But that is an entirely different discussion for another day!  ;)

I know exactly how you feel. The buttonless touchpad (clickpad, forcepad) is I think a scam. Just like how the industry got rid of all notification LEDs on all IPS LCD smartphones to make people spend more on AMOLED screens where Always on Display works properly without sucking battery (on LCD it turns on the whole backlight, not just a part of the screen).

Buttonless touchpads should never have been invented. Whoever invented them should be forced to use a mouse without buttons and only gestures. It's really easy to decide which laptop to buy because of this insane trend - all the ones without buttons are immediately eliminated from even being considered for buying. I feel glad secretly that somewhere some idiot is still going to buy this crap and expect to work fast and productively with gestures.  ;D

It's a very retarded industry. No headphone jack, no sale. No touchpad buttons, no sale. No notification LED, no sale. What's next? Are they going to remove DisplayPort and HDMI because USB-C does it? You never know what these bezel hating idiotic hardware designers will do. No webcam at top because can't have bezels. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Certain important keys not present or reinvented keyboard layout. 🤦🏻‍♂️

No jack, no money, sorry.

What's most important on my next laptop though is having separate physical buttons for the touchpad so I can do advanced work comfortably, use middle-click actions easily, never accidentally click on something and never have to use uncomfortable gestures for simple things. These days I just look at a picture of a new model and immediately know if I want it or not - no physical touchpad buttons - no deal. But that is an entirely different discussion for another day!  ;)