Thank you for the — very interesting and on-point — replies, everyone!

I've worked in one of Amazon's "automated" fulfillment centers, going on 2 years now.  This company is so forward thinking, it would be amiss not be a little curious as to where things are headed.  I think that kind of packing machinery would be a great asset to what is already in place, here.    Do I think it's going to dramatically affect FC workers?  Soon?  No.  Probably not even in the next decade or two.  There is still too much around here that needs skills and decision making that only humans can provide.  There is no "grey area" in the mind of the machine...not yet anyway...

I work at Amazon, and I think this will be an interesting test. The packing machines will probably have some limitations, such as being unable to package oddly shaped or heavy groups of items. It will also need people to troubleshoot problems, fix or maintain them, and keep it supplied. Short term, I see this as a good thing, and long term it will offer more opportunities. My FC doesn't have one yet, but hopefully soon we will.

Quote from: Digitalguy on May 14, 2019, 23:32:07

Quote from: heffeque on May 14, 2019, 13:42:23

Quote from: Digitalguy on May 14, 2019, 12:54:55
Disruptive technologies have displaced millions of jobs already in the past, this is nothing new... And millions more have been created. Some people will be left behind in the process, as always... That's why it's important to train people to be flexible and be able to learn and re-train all their life... Some degree of protection is important, but too much protection slows down progress and often has very little effect. It's an international world, and there is no such thing as an international protection. Could we tax Apple and Google to fund Nokia's fired staff unemployment? Could we tax computers for typing machine employees? Or digital cameras for old analog cameras, or even smartphones for digital cameras? Sure, some countries try to solve problems with taxes, but in a globalized world a country with too much taxes will just be left behind all together...

True... but high taxed countries aren't all doing that bad. Look at the Scandinavian countries. Much higher quality of life than the US, with a very socialist high tax (high indirect return) mentality.
Maybe reducing weekly work hours and increasing vacation days could help too. Some countries have started to reduce legal working hours. Hopefully it catches on.

It's not all about technological progress progress progress.
Death comes to us all, so people have to live healthy and happily too, otherwise it's all for nothing.

Yes and no. Look at Switzerland, where I live, it's not tax hell like in the Nordics (not heaven) but the have one of the best quality of life. Then look at  France and it's a disaster... So it really depends...

Well... we all know where a big amount of money comes from in Switzerland. Let's say that it's banking and "other" money from abroad, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Basically the best quality of life is in countries where basics are covered for everyone and inequality is lowest. Not only poor people benefit from low inequality, also the wealthy. For example: it's not really worth it to be rich in Brazil if you have to live in a bunker and you need am armored car so as not to get assaulted/assassinated, etc.

As some people say, a rich country isn't the one that even poor people have cars, but the one where rich people take the public transport.

Going back to topic:
If machines are going to start doing all available jobs, maybe there should no longer be the need to work as much. Less yearly working hours is also a kind of progress, a very welcome one I'd say.

Quote from: heffeque on May 14, 2019, 13:42:23

Quote from: Digitalguy on May 14, 2019, 12:54:55
Disruptive technologies have displaced millions of jobs already in the past, this is nothing new... And millions more have been created. Some people will be left behind in the process, as always... That's why it's important to train people to be flexible and be able to learn and re-train all their life... Some degree of protection is important, but too much protection slows down progress and often has very little effect. It's an international world, and there is no such thing as an international protection. Could we tax Apple and Google to fund Nokia's fired staff unemployment? Could we tax computers for typing machine employees? Or digital cameras for old analog cameras, or even smartphones for digital cameras? Sure, some countries try to solve problems with taxes, but in a globalized world a country with too much taxes will just be left behind all together...

True... but high taxed countries aren't all doing that bad. Look at the Scandinavian countries. Much higher quality of life than the US, with a very socialist high tax (high indirect return) mentality.
Maybe reducing weekly work hours and increasing vacation days could help too. Some countries have started to reduce legal working hours. Hopefully it catches on.

It's not all about technological progress progress progress.
Death comes to us all, so people have to live healthy and happily too, otherwise it's all for nothing.

Yes and no. Look at Switzerland, where I live, it's not tax hell like in the Nordics (not heaven) but the have one of the best quality of life. Then look at  France and it's a disaster... So it really depends...

Hope this eventually cuts shipping prices in the US by at least 50%. In the US you generally need to spend more than $10 for something minor to possibly cover shipping.
In China you get free delivery over most of the country on purchases as least as little as 5RMB, for a toothbrush or a bag of snacks or something, that's less than a dollar, and it's not fake free delivery in which you prepay more than a hundred dollars per year and end up stuck with one seller with a fixed price like Amazon, you just pay the one seller for what you're buying at the moment, so in many cases you could buy small batches(usually 2-2.5kg, not that small by shipping standards) of fresh produce costing a total of $3-4 on the web, at cheaper than the local supermarket, with free shipping. In the US you need to spend maybe 10 times that for a delivery to happen and they charge obscene "tips" for delivering produce.
And the delivery people in China aren't even poor, they generally earn more than low rank white collars, and I don't think the purchasing power of the USD more than 10 times that of CNY, so something is seriously broken about the whole logistics network of the US and if it's the labor cost then this could fix it.

Quote from: heffeque on May 14, 2019, 12:14:58
In the future I'm guessing that there will have to be some kind of tax on machines to pay for permanent or semi-permanent unemployed. It's not logical that some people get to earn millions with machines, yet millions of people earn nothing or near to nothing due to machines taking more and more jobs from people.

If not enough people have jobs, not enough people will be able to buy things, which is part of what work is for.

Imagine the scenario where a small percent of people have all their work power on machines (like 100% machines), and the rest can't work at all because there is no more work left that can't be automated, so they earn no money whatsoever. Who are these powerful people going to sell their things to? (This is obviously an exaggerated example to make my point a bit easier to understand).

At that point people will be paid just to be alive, the majority of people will be supported by machines...unless somebody decides to do self-conscious AI which would probably eventually wipe out humans.

Quote from: Digitalguy on May 14, 2019, 12:54:55
Disruptive technologies have displaced millions of jobs already in the past, this is nothing new... And millions more have been created. Some people will be left behind in the process, as always... That's why it's important to train people to be flexible and be able to learn and re-train all their life... Some degree of protection is important, but too much protection slows down progress and often has very little effect. It's an international world, and there is no such thing as an international protection. Could we tax Apple and Google to fund Nokia's fired staff unemployment? Could we tax computers for typing machine employees? Or digital cameras for old analog cameras, or even smartphones for digital cameras? Sure, some countries try to solve problems with taxes, but in a globalized world a country with too much taxes will just be left behind all together...

True... but high taxed countries aren't all doing that bad. Look at the Scandinavian countries. Much higher quality of life than the US, with a very socialist high tax (high indirect return) mentality.
Maybe reducing weekly work hours and increasing vacation days could help too. Some countries have started to reduce legal working hours. Hopefully it catches on.

It's not all about technological progress progress progress.
Death comes to us all, so people have to live healthy and happily too, otherwise it's all for nothing.

Disruptive technologies have displaced millions of jobs already in the past, this is nothing new... And millions more have been created. Some people will be left behind in the process, as always... That's why it's important to train people to be flexible and be able to learn and re-train all their life... Some degree of protection is important, but too much protection slows down progress and often has very little effect. It's an international world, and there is no such thing as an international protection. Could we tax Apple and Google to fund Nokia's fired staff unemployment? Could we tax computers for typing machine employees? Or digital cameras for old analog cameras, or even smartphones for digital cameras? Sure, some countries try to solve problems with taxes, but in a globalized world a country with too much taxes will just be left behind all together...

In the future I'm guessing that there will have to be some kind of tax on machines to pay for permanent or semi-permanent unemployed. It's not logical that some people get to earn millions with machines, yet millions of people earn nothing or near to nothing due to machines taking more and more jobs from people.

If not enough people have jobs, not enough people will be able to buy things, which is part of what work is for.

Imagine the scenario where a small percent of people have all their work power on machines (like 100% machines), and the rest can't work at all because there is no more work left that can't be automated, so they earn no money whatsoever. Who are these powerful people going to sell their things to? (This is obviously an exaggerated example to make my point a bit easier to understand).