I really think that gx701 keyboard placement is not bad at all, It's a diffrent design but actually great, I don't use my laptops on my lap but on a table for gaming and typing etc. it doesn't bother me at all in fact I really liked it, it depends on each persons view for it, with gs75 touchpad being that big and wide it's really hard for a typist to do the job as Linus Tech Tips mentioned in his review for gs75 and even against his mention from the gx701 webcam I don't see that as a problem either, if you twitch gaming neither of the webcam placement on the laptop or not on it is gonna help you (cuz of the quality, most twitch streamers get a separate one), some of the reviews are a little bit diffrent as in the display of gx701 is far more better that gs75, anyway I really liked the new gx701 design and other laptops such as acer predator triton 900 and even a msi laptop (i dont remember which model) have the touchpad on the side for their better performance so i guess it is a new thing for gaming laptops and were gonna get used to it  :p I vote for gx701  :D

@Viper2

I appreciate you being a less insulting.  No reason people who disagree can't still have a civilized discussion.

You are simply wrong.  What you are missing is every single point I've outlined (except how good the gx701 build quality feels in person since I obviously only knew that after getting it, but trusted all the reviews that pointed it out) were points I considered a month ago *before* beyond it lol.  I very seriously considered the gs75 and in fact all my points are points outlined in various reviews online including the notebookcheck reviews here, the Linus Tech Tips reviews, and countless other ones. 

Further the gs75 is a larger upgrade of the gs65, a laptop a co-worker had and I was able to get some hands on time (and feel the flex and cheapness of it's build, and also he echo'd the same thermal issues).  Still I considered the gs75 since that the and gx701 are the two with the 17" screens in smaller bodies.  At least the best picks, I considered at least a few others like the GE75, the Lenovo Legion Y740.

Gsync was an important deciding factor based on using it for the last year or two so I know it's value.

What you don't seem to get beyond is just because -you- think the forward placement of the keyboard is horrible doesn't mean it is in fact horrible to everyone.  In fact if you haven't even used such a thing for any sort of time you really have no clue and are just guessing.  I have in fact now used a forward placed keyboard for a month and many many traditional laptops (including the one I'm typing on now).

I can say with confidence the forward keyboard is in fact a *plus* for me.  I prefer it both in my current use on a tray attached to my chair, I don't have to reach over the touchpad anymore, no more palm presses (which the gs75 seems to have a reputation for having a lot due to it's extra wide touchpad).

Also as I already outlined 10% improvement is not insignificant, that's the lower end of upgrading from a 2070 to a 2080!  Also again at higher fps for the higher end percentage improvements the absolute fps numbers are higher.  A 10% gain on 100 fps is 10 fps.  A 20% gain on 50 fps is 10 fps.  Hence the percentages diminish on the higher gains, but the absolute frame gains can actually be quite significant.

Why would anyone be surprised when some people are trying to get the best small form factor 17" gaming laptop they want to get the one with the actual best gaming performance.  The gs75 is the better pic for lap usage and upgradeability... the gx701 for actual gaming... both are great laptops in general though.  I considered both but I just happen to agree with Linus in the end (watch his review of the GS75 and gx701), that the GS75 doesn't make sense when you can spend a little more and get 10% improvement the keyboard is actually an improvement for me (no more hot keys too, huge plus), and I don't care about upgrading beyond the specs I got and build quality is very important to me on a $3k+ laptop.  To me when I considered all the pros and cons my choice was obvious.  Plus I read or watched every single review of both and benchmark.

You might consider taking people at face value.  I chose the gx701 because it was genuinely the better choice for me, Asphodelus chose the gs75 because it was the better choice for them.  Other people do in fact make choices based on reasons and have their own experiences, even if you don't agree with them.

How many TMUs do 2080 Max-Q (and so on) have actually? 184?

Matthew,

What you are experiencing is called "choice-supportive bias". You can read about it on Wikipedia.

You have to understand that many gamers will buy any nonsensically-designed PC if it will provide even a tiny performance increase. If a laptop came out tomorrow with a circular detached keyboard providing a 10% performance increase over the fastest gaming laptop currently available, you can bet many gamers will purchase it not caring at all about logical design or ergonomics. Just the way it is.

@Asphodelus

Thanks for that well articulated and respectful response.  As you point out, I agree we can indeed seek common ground while having differences as well.  All in all I think we mostly agree, I think the pros and cons of these devices are mostly objective and it comes down to how you subjectively rate those in importance to yourself or other subjective factors.

It's great to hear you had good results.  I know that repasting just on it's own can help the thermals of pretty much laptop, that combined with manually flashing the vbios makes a lot of sense and helps work around the biggest performance downsides of this laptop (thermal performance and the 80w vibes).

With that said I'm sure you can agree that an apples to apples comparison is very important, especially for a large amount of users that aren't prepared to go through those steps.  Personally I won't be, with this laptop at least, which is why I chose the Asus.  At this price I'm just not comfortable risking voiding my warranty.  To me it makes a bit less sense for laptops at this price range, but makes a lot more sense for laptops at a lower price range where you aren't risking as much money.  Also for an apples to apples comparison we'd have to see the gx701 re-pasted, it's thermals, and also what sort of overclocking you might be able to achieve on both given the same treatment.  Reviews like notebook check just can't go into that sort of comparison, so they go stock to stock, which is honestly how most users will likely be using it.  In many ways though this shows how impressive the gx701 is stock, that it has adequate thermals and runs the CPU and GPU at the higher clocks -stock-. 

With that said everything you said mirrors the narrative here, that the MSI offers a lot of flexibility if you are wanting to crack it open and do various upgrades and modification. If you repast and flash a new vbios you can nearly get the same performance, if you want more RAM (or to swap out to a different set of RAM) you can do that, if you want more m.2 drives you can do that, etc.  If you are someone who wants an expensive baseline to modify then it's a great choice.

Regarding the keyboard, though I agree key travel is important...  For context I have used a lot of different laptops including still having an Alienware 13 R3 (I still love that OLED screen, can't wait for laptops with high refresh OLED screens).  It has key travel of 2.2mm, so even more than the MSI.  It's a great typing experience, the key travel is only part of the equation, how the keyboard is designed and especially the rigidity of the chasis in a laptop impacts it greatly (and the Alienware might be the most rigid keyboard chases I've seen to be honest).  I've used the keyboard on the GS65 and it wasn't bad, but honestly I didn't feel it was great either.  I was personally very surprised with the keyboard in the gx701.  Not great key travel but it's designed to fully maximize that experience on it's limited key travel.  The keys have a very confident snap to them that makes it a pleasure to type on. 

For example I also have a surface pro 4 and it's typeover is only about 1.3mm key travel, though honestly it's typing is better than most laptops I've used due to it's quality design.  Likewise you can actually get a lot of super cheap desktop keyboards that have high key travel but are not high quality products.  With that said the GS keyboards (Steelseries sourced, which I'm a fan of, have an Arctis 7 headset that I love) are very good, but honestly the typing experience to me personally was a wash between the two.  I felt the Alienware gets a better typing experience with its key travel personally.

All of this comes down to personal use however...  I recommend people try these models in the store and see what you like.  Likewise some reviewers have pointed out the extra wide touchpad in the gs75 and palm presses.  That is an advantage of having the gx701 touchpad on the right, no more palm presses.  Each individuals mileage may vary on any of this though.

I will point out that chasis stability is a clear advantage of the gx701 (even if upgradeability is a clear advantage of the gs75).

As far as gsync.  It is indeed functioning gsync.  It's easy to test, disable it and see tearing, enable it and no longer see tearing.  The gx701 comes with gsync off and Optimus on (for shipping units, I think they did the opposite for review models), I didn't realize this and was wondering why I was seeing tearing.  Enabled gsync mode (battery life is not a problem for me) and I see the glorious adaptive refresh rate and no stuttering or tearing. 

So I'm not sure if you're aware but Nvidia officially has started supporting Freesync in Nvidia video cards on certain free sync monitors they approve the performance of (and there's a way to enable it for other monitors too I believe with non-approve free sync).  Basically the gsync module in the desktop ensures consistent experience, but part of that is different monitors paired with different computers through different connections.  An all in one laptop is a controlled experience.  So basically they confirmed that yes Nvidia cards can do adaptive sync with free sync which has no extra chip.  Gsync in these laptops are no joke and if you are used to it already it's really really hard to go back to a life without it.  Much like going back to a 60hz monitor from a 120-144hz+ monitor.  For me considering there was such strong options with gsync that eliminated the MSI models (I found the ge75 interesting too with it's full laptop 2080, but again no gsync and it was a bit too big).

I'm glad your enjoying your laptop, honestly I think these are both top tier laptops and people should choose the one based on what's important to them.  I also think people should try these things in the store since a lot of laptop feel is very subjective, especially with keyboards (that surface type cover proved to me that a low key travel keyboard can indeed feel better than some high key travel ones for example).

@Viper2

You are disrespectful and acting like a troll, so unless you choose to engage in non-childish communications this will be my last response.

Keyboard placement is perfectly fine for many many people not using it on their lap (something you really don't do in gaming anyways due to the heat of all of these).  They forward keyboard placement is actually superior to me and many others for such uses and no you don't have to keep it 6 inches away.

The stock performance of the Asus is indeed 10% better both in CPU and GPU.   You can get better performance in the MSI by repasting and flashing your vbios (both extremely non stock steps, but good to know for people who are comfortable doing that and willing to risk their warranty).  Most of that is nothing new however, every laptop can gain thermal performance by repasting.  You can use liquid metal and gain 20 degrees or so and then overclock.  You can do that in the gx701 too and maybe still exceed the same performance, I have yet to see a fair comparison in those scenarios.

These are both excellent laptops (hence good reviews among both across the web).  For many the keyboard placement is in fact better (the touchpad in front of the keyboard has always been a laptop abomination, you don't use your mouse in front of your keyboard) and it boils down to a couple tradeoffs where the MSI has greater upgradeability and is a bit lighter with a traditional placement of keyboard and touchpad (though some have reported palm presses due to the touchpad being too wide).  The Asus performs a healthy bit better (10% is not insignificant and gives some favorable number sin fps per dollars), has significantly better build quality (the flex is like night and day IMHO and that's important to some not to others, and has gsync plus Optimus.  Gsync is an immense feature that's finally landed on laptops.  For some (like me) that's a deal breaker right there.  You can never get gsync on that MSI screen.  Likewise the gx701 screen is indeed less bright and their unit was less color accurate, though it does have a higher contrast and black level (and brightness distribution). 

Another pro of that funky design is the hottest part of the laptop isn't under your keyboard so it doesn't get uncomfortable and hot, something all gaming laptops typically have a problem with.

It's all pros and cons and you can make your own decision.  There's a reason there are so many positive reviews.  Linux Tech Tips for example in their GS75 video couldn't recommend the highest spec GS75 since the gx701 performed better all around, they were very disappointed with the flex of the gs75 (they show the flex in the video) especially for the price, and gsync was a good feature at that price point (some cheaper laptops have gsync even).  On their gx701 review they talk about the keyboard and touchpad and they found it perfectly good and even more natural in the end (that touchpad on the right does feel so right when you use it for a bit, more like a mouse on the right).  They basically said just spend a bit more and get the gx701, but they did recommend the down spec version of the gs75 as good values.

Of course that's just one set of opinions, but there are others just like that as well as those willing to sacrifice some build quality for a more conventional laptop design and upgrade options.  Don't trash peoples choices when there are many reviewers coming to the same conclusions.  They are both good devices and have different pros and cons.  That cheaper build quality nets you some weight savings for example, for some that 0.8 pounds is an important difference, for others it's worth the weight.

Again that's it, hope you have a nice life, but please stop being childish.

Sounds like some people here want to defend the Asus GX701 no matter how badly it's designed (i.e. keyboard placement). There's a reason 99.99% of laptops have keyboard placement similar to the MSI GX75, because it is 100 times more ergonomic than Asus's clownish design of the GX701. Also, most hardware tweekers agree that repasting a brand new laptop's CPU and GPU basically gives zero performance gain. So if the MSI GX75 running at 90w is only 2%-4% slower than the stock Asus GX701, then that's even more kudos to MSI. Also keep in mind sitting an additional 6 inches away from the laptop screen (like the Asus GX701 requires due to its horrible keyboard placement) makes the display look significantly smaller too. Another loss for the Asus GX701. Sorry but the Asus GX701 loses this battle BIGTIME. It's not even close.

Quote from: Matthew Langley on April 10, 2019, 03:21:30

Quote from: Asphodelus on April 10, 2019, 02:30:59
OK
IN this test GS75 2080MAXQ TDP is 80W.and NOW GS75 Upgraded to 90W .in this TDP The performance gap is only 2% to 4%. If you don't believe it .Please look at 3DMARK SPY and FSEX Ranking list。So for such a small performance gap, users need to abandon everything else.
Also GS75 keyboard 2mm GX701 1.4mm.This is a huge gap

Do you have a source for MSI officially upgrading the vbios with the 90w version? 

Are you referring to user submitted rankings since from what I understand there are indeed people flashing their vbios in various  80w versions with the 90w version and getting good results.  Though this is far outside the stock use and many of these people re-paste to deal with the extra heat.  Keep in mind if you look at thermals for the 80w gs75 vs 90w gx701 the gx701 actually does a tiny bit better despite running at higher speeds (meaning more heat), likewise the CPU in the gs75 seems to hit thermal limits and throttles more than the gx701.  So without repasting it'd take some serious testing to see if even flashing your vbios will result in better non-throttled results for the gs75.

Of course if you are good with repasting and flashing (and I'm sure that brings up all sorts of warranty gray areas) then sure, though you can repaste the gx701 and do things to improve performance even more if you so choose too.

Apples to Apples the gx701 runs at higher speeds and maintains the same or slightly better thermals, this advantage likely will give you more headroom if you do various improvements (like pasting) as well.

As far as key travel, key travel isn't everything.  There are indeed some keyboards with great key travel that just don't feel great.  It's very much a personal thing and people should test out their keyboards.

Gsync is not an insignificant difference either. Many people are like me and are far too used to gsync on my desktop gaming to give it up on a laptop if I don't have to.  Then of course build quality, feeling like your 3k+ purchase is actually worth that much in durability and lack of flex.  Also of course though the brightness is a bit lower on the gx701 and worse color accuracy (in the unit reviewed), improved contrast, black level, and brightness distribution is far more important to image quality to many.  Unless running outdoors you really don't need max brightness in the gx701 (I typically run mine at 80-ish percent or so indoors, that's probably too bright for some even) but that great black level and contrast can really enhance the image quality. 

All variables for each individual to consider.  Notebookcheck does an amazing job giving you an objective analysis (hence why these land so close in total percent) so you can choose which things are more or less important but they both do indeed have advantages and disadvantages over each other based on use cases.

Yes i have

After upgrading 90W vbios, the basic frequency of GS75 GPU is exactly the same as that of GX701.

As for temperature, after I changed 7921 silicone grease, at room temperature of 18℃, 45 W FPU + 90 W FurMark 20 minutes later, CPU 75℃ GPU 63℃,I think this temperature is no problem even in summer.

You need to know that VBIOS can only be made public with the approval of Nvidia. If Nvidia does not agree, GX701 can not have a better VBIOS.  The problem is that the gap between 90W and 100W is extremely small.

Unofficial VBIOS we don't discuss

Keyboard is a very important factor, when you can not attach mechanical keyboard, 2mm will give you a very good use experience, my previous GX501 and GS65, 1.2mm and 1.4mm, is a nightmare!

I have MSI GT73 GT72S. AORUSX5. ROG GX501, GS65 and GS75, of which the first four have gsync, but they are not used. I think notebook GSync is a hoax, because the notebook GSync does not have GSync chip!!!
If you don't care about moving weight, I would recommend balanced or heavy laptops, which have a 20% or even 45% performance advantage! (Compared with 80W 2080MAXQ) (e.g. GE75 and 51M) there are lower noise and temperature!

In the end, GX701 in my mind is not as good as GS75 except for 5% performance advantage and structural strength.

Of course, everyone's needs are different and their choices are different. I hope we can seek common ground while reserving differences. Thank you.

Quote from: Asphodelus on April 10, 2019, 02:30:59
OK
IN this test GS75 2080MAXQ TDP is 80W.and NOW GS75 Upgraded to 90W .in this TDP The performance gap is only 2% to 4%. If you don't believe it .Please look at 3DMARK SPY and FSEX Ranking list。So for such a small performance gap, users need to abandon everything else.
Also GS75 keyboard 2mm GX701 1.4mm.This is a huge gap

Do you have a source for MSI officially upgrading the vbios with the 90w version? 

Are you referring to user submitted rankings since from what I understand there are indeed people flashing their vbios in various  80w versions with the 90w version and getting good results.  Though this is far outside the stock use and many of these people re-paste to deal with the extra heat.  Keep in mind if you look at thermals for the 80w gs75 vs 90w gx701 the gx701 actually does a tiny bit better despite running at higher speeds (meaning more heat), likewise the CPU in the gs75 seems to hit thermal limits and throttles more than the gx701.  So without repasting it'd take some serious testing to see if even flashing your vbios will result in better non-throttled results for the gs75.

Of course if you are good with repasting and flashing (and I'm sure that brings up all sorts of warranty gray areas) then sure, though you can repaste the gx701 and do things to improve performance even more if you so choose too.

Apples to Apples the gx701 runs at higher speeds and maintains the same or slightly better thermals, this advantage likely will give you more headroom if you do various improvements (like pasting) as well.

As far as key travel, key travel isn't everything.  There are indeed some keyboards with great key travel that just don't feel great.  It's very much a personal thing and people should test out their keyboards.

Gsync is not an insignificant difference either. Many people are like me and are far too used to gsync on my desktop gaming to give it up on a laptop if I don't have to.  Then of course build quality, feeling like your 3k+ purchase is actually worth that much in durability and lack of flex.  Also of course though the brightness is a bit lower on the gx701 and worse color accuracy (in the unit reviewed), improved contrast, black level, and brightness distribution is far more important to image quality to many.  Unless running outdoors you really don't need max brightness in the gx701 (I typically run mine at 80-ish percent or so indoors, that's probably too bright for some even) but that great black level and contrast can really enhance the image quality. 

All variables for each individual to consider.  Notebookcheck does an amazing job giving you an objective analysis (hence why these land so close in total percent) so you can choose which things are more or less important but they both do indeed have advantages and disadvantages over each other based on use cases.

OK
IN this test GS75 2080MAXQ TDP is 80W.and NOW GS75 Upgraded to 90W .in this TDP The performance gap is only 2% to 4%. If you don't believe it .Please look at 3DMARK SPY and FSEX Ranking list。So for such a small performance gap, users need to abandon everything else.
Also GS75 keyboard 2mm GX701 1.4mm.This is a huge gap

Thanks for updating regarding Optimus.  Honestly it's the best of both worlds on the gx701.  The shipping model comes with Optimus on (gsync off) so it basically works like the gs75 (improving the battery life).  Then you can opt into it running like a gsync laptop (with a quick restart).  There really is now downside to it being a manual restart compared to the gs75 since it can run in a mode that acts just like the gs75 or it can run as a gsync laptop (while the ms75 can only do half of that).

Regarding another set of comments the keyboard placement is a problem for some, but if you use a desk (or some other surface) I find the placement far superior than standard laptops (especially no palm pressing issues, such as the extra wide gs75 touchpad), all personal preference and something you have to try to know.

Also a 10% increase is not an insignificant improvement, especially at this top tier of laptop specs, keeping in mind 10% at the low end means fewer frames than at the top end.  For example a desktop RTX 2080 runs about 10-20% faster than an RTX 2070 on many games (some as low as 10-ish or less, some up to that 18-20%+).  So yeah a 10% improvement running the same hardware is *not* insignificant at all.

Yeah let's place the keyboard at the very edge of the laptop just so we can get a tiny bit better gaming performance that will make zero noticeable difference in real world gameplay. Herp Derp..... :o

The reviewer is clearly trying to paint the Asus GX701 in a brighter picture than it deserves. It has horrible keyboard placement for a laptop and it has no built-in webcam. The keyboard placement alone points to very bad design and because of this the MSI GS75 demolishes it as an actual usable laptop.

Great comparison, just a couple points

1) The gx701 does support toggling to Optimus
2) Based on your results I'm surprised you didn't point out the gx701 has a better contrast, black level, and brightness distribution