@dieter:
Same as you, I've also tried many laptops over the years. I haven't owned them all, but there's a great laptop showcasing mall/department where I live where they display all kinds of laptops from official manufacturers to no-brand retailers where anyone can come and experience, even get to open up and test laptops for hours.

I know what you're trying to say and I agree, especially about how all ODMs deliberately create a confusing array of excellent to horrific laptops like cars and everything else. But you see, I'm just trying to express my dislike of ASUS engineering in general, not saying all of them have terrible value. Based on my experience this year alone, the ROG series particularly the lightweight GL502 and high-end 752 series had absolutely garbage, out of control cooling that makes me question "What on earth are they thinking, releasing these as products". Undervolting and repasting had no effect whatsoever on 90+ temps and not surprising too, since the heat dissipation and ventilation designs weren't comprehensible at all, at least from my non-pro-engineer perspective.

As for build quality, again, disappointing. Whereas Gigabyte, MSI and Clevo have actually improved in designing gaming laptop chassis, ROG models are full of thick plastic bezels and thin/creaking base materials. And I've had my share of chances with Zenbooks as well. Wasn't too happy about the Ceramic/Glass cover on UX430, sub-par rigidity of UX550 Pro build compared to XPS, Spectre, Yoga and Macs, and noticeably rattly keyboard with even shorter key travel on almost all models compared to their last years'. On top of all that, they're actually cheapening out on battery and ports. 15" models using 50~ish WHr Li-On, even less number of ports, constant use of USB 2.0 and slow SD card readers, lack of TB3 and NVMe SSD and so on and so on.

I've always considered them as an underdog but now I feel like they've completely dropped the ball and charging even higher prices for lazy design and engineering. And the way they announce and distribute products, some laptops are released only to be silently scrapped or replaced by a virtually identical model a month later. Others are short on availability, on some distant country's website as a regional model but nowhere to be actually found by any channels. Their entire operation, marketing and engineering are all a hell of an obscure mystery to me, and probably to their own servicing staff as well from my experience.

I don't need a "perfect" laptop, but since my entire work/leisure/education depends on it, I'd like the manufacturers to a little competent at the very least. In that sense, ASUS just hasn't been up to my standard, that's all.

Quote from: dthrp on September 05, 2017, 20:15:35
@JensL:
"Weighs the same as a Yoga 510(without gtx1050)"
There is no such laptop to my knowledge, but alright.

"you dont know the battery performance yet"
Well no, however I estimate around 3-4 hours and that's not enough for me.

"you can get it with the 1050, it will have TB3"
My bad, I see the heavier model's got 'em both. Though the GTX1050 has smaller size VRAM and TB3 probably has halved lanes, which again aren't up to my standards.

"what do you need a NVMe SSD in a 2i1 for?"
Now that's just lazy thinking, isn't it? Not everyone's like you.

"HDMI 2.1 is not out yet"
No the 2.0b is, yet they use almost a decade old 1.4 standard.

"the new AX standard is not out yet"
I wasn't talking about Wi-Fi, but the AC adapter plug being non-USB-C despite their supposed <100 watt power use.

"you dont know the build or keyboard quality - you are just assuming"
Obviously. But I've used enough others to dislike them and ASUS isn't exactly known for heeding to its customers.

"You are really good at talking out of your a** though."
Me?... Really??  ;)

I've used plenty of laptops, from Thinkpads to Dells to HP (typing this on a ZBook 15). I bought a UX410UA for my kid just when it came out, for €650.00, and I was impressed by the build quality of the device in that price range. There are others, like the UX430 and the UX501 which had stellar build quality, and the ROG Strix range tends to get some good reviews as well.

In the HP line both the Envy and the Pavilion lines are not very good, Lenovo's got the IdeaPads which aren't very good, I wouldn't pick a Dell anything except Precision/XPS, etc. etc. All manufacturers have crap laptops and good laptops, and you can spot them from the price point. Saying ASUS as a brand has crappy build quality is just a flat out lie. Sure their Vivobooks aren't great, but they're no worse than HP Pavilion, Dell Latitude or Lenovo IdeaPad.

And the Zenbook series, well, they have their flaws, but in general, build quality is good. They often have keyboard flex, yes, and the best built Lenovo's often have shitty screens. There's no perfect laptop yet.

I personally don't like 2-in-1's but there's a lot to like about the Zenbook Flip 15. I'm hoping they will release something like this in a normal laptop, something like the UX531UD, refreshing the UX530 with a 8th gen CPU, a GTX 1050/MX150, and an IR camera and a little bigger in battery life (60-70Whr) would be a big plus. I'd buy that.

Don't really understand why they only announced 13"ers and 2-in-1s though. Really hope the bigger laptops get the upgrade.

@JensL:
"Weighs the same as a Yoga 510(without gtx1050)"
There is no such laptop to my knowledge, but alright.

"you dont know the battery performance yet"
Well no, however I estimate around 3-4 hours and that's not enough for me.

"you can get it with the 1050, it will have TB3"
My bad, I see the heavier model's got 'em both. Though the GTX1050 has smaller size VRAM and TB3 probably has halved lanes, which again aren't up to my standards.

"what do you need a NVMe SSD in a 2i1 for?"
Now that's just lazy thinking, isn't it? Not everyone's like you.

"HDMI 2.1 is not out yet"
No the 2.0b is, yet they use almost a decade old 1.4 standard.

"the new AX standard is not out yet"
I wasn't talking about Wi-Fi, but the AC adapter plug being non-USB-C despite their supposed <100 watt power use.

"you dont know the build or keyboard quality - you are just assuming"
Obviously. But I've used enough others to dislike them and ASUS isn't exactly known for heeding to its customers.

"You are really good at talking out of your a** though."
Me?... Really??  ;)

@dthrp - Weighs the same as a Yoga 510(without gtx1050), you dont know the battery performance yet, you can get it with the 1050, it will have TB3, what do you need a NVMe SSD in a 2i1 for? HDMI 2.1 is not out yet, the new AX standard is not out yet, you dont know the build or keyboard quality - you are just assuming. You are really good at talking out of your a** though.

Too heavy, way too small a battery, no dGPU, no PCIe 3 x4 TB3 & NVMe SSD, last-decade HDMI/SD/AC/stylus standard, sub-par build, poor ports, poor keyboard, poor upgradability, relatively bad value overall.

Typical Asus.

Other important things to note:

The "i7" is a U-class. HQ-class is faster even if izonly "i5". Intel has a confusing branding scheme and I think it's important not to play into that.

ASUS has a history of using not-true-high-res displays in their laptops (PenTile  RG/BW), which is a detail omitted from product specifications. I've never seen that on 13.3" 3840x2160, only 13.3" '3200x1800' and 15.6" '3840x2160' but it is something I think needs to be brought up just so customers know it's something to watch out for.

You forgot to mention that it comes with integrated graphics, MX150 or GTX 1050. The version with the GTX 1050 also comes with an IR camera for face login. That's a pretty rare feature. I know the Thinkpad comes with it in some configurations, don't know of many others.