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Posted by Gastredner
 - November 03, 2024, 15:54:59
Quote from: N-B on October 27, 2024, 19:15:46The problem is that this particular model is too noisy to justify its 3 kg weight. The norm for its noise is 2.4-2.5 kg, no more.

No, it's not. It simply draws as much power (= performance) as it can. With 2.5 kg it would be louder or the performance (= power draw) would be lower. This is not what you want on a desktop replacement notebook, which is not meant for high mobility but for decent portability which is sufficient for many people.

Quote from: N-B on October 27, 2024, 19:15:46If you carry a laptop in a car, the weight does not matter, but if you walk with it in a bag - even 2 kg after 1-1.5 km on foot becomes a significant burden. You are not a soldier in the army to carry a bunch of junk on yourself.
Admittedly, some time ago, I carried my working laptop (~2.8kg) in my shoulder bag over ~20 min by foot. That was not a burden at all :D but quite a bit uncomfortable. If this is something you have to do on a regular basis, just get a backpack to half the weight per shoulder! That would be laughable 1.4 kg per shoulder. Or with a 2kg laptop, it would be only 1kg per shoulder. You hopefully don't want to tell me, that this would be a "burden"? LOL

Laptops are so much worse in terms of cooling than desktops. The silliest thing one can do, is to slim them down and too make them uselessly leightweight
Posted by Theo
 - October 28, 2024, 11:32:33
Quote from: N-B on October 27, 2024, 19:38:11It is sad to add that if they are focusing on such future Lenovo lines, then they will have to wait much longer - they release them with a much greater delay, especially against the background of new Asus lines and they will most likely not be available before the end of summer 2025. If this is too long, you will have to choose from what is available now or look at other manufacturers. And Asus (as a priority buyer of AMD processors, it is always the first with new lines globally) does not particularly shine in professional lines. Perhaps you can take "gaming" ones, but they may have their own lot of flaws. In fact, it does not have such lines (for example, it is impossible to find a line with a classic full numpad and a 16:10 screen).

I would have bought the Asus G18 series a long time ago in the spring of 2024, but for me personally, literally everything is bad there - the screen (low contrast 1000-1100:1, lousy sRGB profile management from the factory, or rather it simply does not exist, normal, according to owner reviews, not 4k, but stupid 2.5k, although 18" require 4k), idiotic location of ports, including the power jack. No options with Zen4 HX and USB40 ports. Well, it is also quite noisy, which is not surprising with the hot Intel 14 series.. There is a G17 on Zen4 HX, but it has its own problems - for some reason the screen is already 16:9 and with the location, the set of ports is also complete insanity.

As a result, there is nowhere to look in 2024. Everywhere there is some kind of ambush (and for me personally, a 16" screen is simply not enough, because I carry it I don't plan to, but I can easily use it at home without a monitor), but it's all so individual. Probably Lenovo/Asus marketers know better...

Maybe in 2025 17-18" 16:10 business devices with 4k retina with fast response and high-contrast(real 1500:1+) IPS screens will finally appear, as well as a full set of conveniently located advanced ports (including at least 2xDP2.0+ outputs at 80Gbps+) and a classic numpad. And also flexibly adjustable in noise level. All components for this are available or can be easily created.
Quote from: RobertJasiek on October 27, 2024, 17:01:54
Quote from: Theo on October 27, 2024, 15:36:36deciding between buying a laptop or a desktop PC. My primary use will be gaming and heavy programming, and my budget is around $2500 maximus $3000 I can afford.

Heavy programming: I think you need a fast CPU, both single and multi thread.

Gaming (if you mean 3D gaming): You also need a GPU. Whether iGPU or dGPU and possibly which dGPU depends on the display resolution for gaming and its settings. Modest 3D gaming with 1080p and moderate settings runs on certain iGPUs, such as 680M, 780M or successors. For higher resolutions or settings, you need a dGPU, preferably Nvidia. Given your budget, you better avoid 4K gaming. For ca. 2K gaming, the most suitable dGPU depends on settings and possibly your chosen games but 4060, 4070 or 4080 might be right. 1080p gaming gives you a huge financial scope to choose quality and hardware for programming. Heck, you might even buy notebook and desktop then but why?

RAM: both your applications need RAM. 16GB is the absolute minimum. Heavy programming asks, or soon will ask, for 64GB; you better do not make compromises there, unless you already know that your specific kind of heavy programming never exceeds, and never will exceed, 32GB. (I cannot know if your jobs are so heavy that you would need even more than 64GB.)

SSD(s): buy large enough.


Thank you so much both of you friends, appreciate it really for guiding me. For now I intend to stay with my current laptop till new year, if I couldn't find a good option in notebooks category then I will build a pc for myself.
One more thing please don't stop criticizing the reviews on NB I really like your comments, even more than the review itself.
Posted by N-B
 - October 27, 2024, 19:38:11
It is sad to add that if they are focusing on such future Lenovo lines, then they will have to wait much longer - they release them with a much greater delay, especially against the background of new Asus lines and they will most likely not be available before the end of summer 2025. If this is too long, you will have to choose from what is available now or look at other manufacturers. And Asus (as a priority buyer of AMD processors, it is always the first with new lines globally) does not particularly shine in professional lines. Perhaps you can take "gaming" ones, but they may have their own lot of flaws. In fact, it does not have such lines (for example, it is impossible to find a line with a classic full numpad and a 16:10 screen).

I would have bought the Asus G18 series a long time ago in the spring of 2024, but for me personally, literally everything is bad there - the screen (low contrast 1000-1100:1, lousy sRGB profile management from the factory, or rather it simply does not exist, normal, according to owner reviews, not 4k, but stupid 2.5k, although 18" require 4k), idiotic location of ports, including the power jack. No options with Zen4 HX and USB40 ports. Well, it is also quite noisy, which is not surprising with the hot Intel 14 series.. There is a G17 on Zen4 HX, but it has its own problems - for some reason the screen is already 16:9 and with the location, the set of ports is also complete insanity.

As a result, there is nowhere to look in 2024. Everywhere there is some kind of ambush (and for me personally, a 16" screen is simply not enough, because I carry it I don't plan to, but I can easily use it at home without a monitor), but it's all so individual. Probably Lenovo/Asus marketers know better...

Maybe in 2025 17-18" 16:10 business devices with 4k retina with fast response and high-contrast(real 1500:1+) IPS screens will finally appear, as well as a full set of conveniently located advanced ports (including at least 2xDP2.0+ outputs at 80Gbps+) and a classic numpad. And also flexibly adjustable in noise level. All components for this are available or can be easily created.
Posted by N-B
 - October 27, 2024, 19:15:46
Quote from: Gastredner on October 27, 2024, 12:31:45High-end notebooks weighed over 4kg more and were easily 4cm thick many years ago . I appreciate that we get them now at only 3kg and 3cm which is the sweetspot of portability and cooling.

Many customers don't need high or ultra portability, but prefer a space-saving and still easily portable desktop replacement with best performance or thermal headroom for quieter fans!
The problem is that this particular model is too noisy to justify its 3 kg weight. The norm for its noise is 2.4-2.5 kg, no more.

If you carry a laptop in a car, the weight does not matter, but if you walk with it in a bag - even 2 kg after 1-1.5 km on foot becomes a significant burden. You are not a soldier in the army to carry a bunch of junk on yourself.

Quote from: Theo on October 27, 2024, 15:36:36My primary use will be gaming and heavy programming
If this statement is serious (especially regarding "heavy" programming), then this is a difficult question. You already need at least 64 GB of RAM. The faster the memory controller in terms of bandwidth, the faster the assembly of heavy projects. And only the latest Zen5 chips shine in this regard, together with sufficient multi-threaded performance, but not the shameful Lunar Lake.

You probably need to wait (we have all been sadly waiting for a long time) for the release of Zen5 Halo Point with a fast 256-bit memory controller (in the hope that its efficiency will be at least higher than 80%). This is already a serious series specifically for professional and "gaming" laptops.

The 13-14 series of Intel is morally obsolete and monstrously hot, noisy, there is no point in spending so much money on such old and slow hardware in terms of memory and in general. Be patient for another six months, laptops on the new Zen5 series should definitely be released by spring. Although of course they will be expensive, as always for new series and of course we need to press for real tests of the memory controller and overall performance in conjunction with what laptop manufacturers will offer. We just don't know yet what we will be dealing with by the spring of 2025. But a 256-bit memory controller (of course, subject to high efficiency of 80%+) is definitely a new breakthrough in x86 for both development and gaming, especially since there will already be a 5xxx series of NVidia, where even the 5070 will probably be equal to or faster than the 4080.

Intel has nothing to respond to AMD Zen5 Halo Point by the spring of 2025. It simply has nothing like that in its plans.
Posted by RobertJasiek
 - October 27, 2024, 17:01:54
Quote from: Theo on October 27, 2024, 15:36:36deciding between buying a laptop or a desktop PC. My primary use will be gaming and heavy programming, and my budget is around $2500 maximus $3000 I can afford.

Heavy programming: I think you need a fast CPU, both single and multi thread.

Gaming (if you mean 3D gaming): You also need a GPU. Whether iGPU or dGPU and possibly which dGPU depends on the display resolution for gaming and its settings. Modest 3D gaming with 1080p and moderate settings runs on certain iGPUs, such as 680M, 780M or successors. For higher resolutions or settings, you need a dGPU, preferably Nvidia. Given your budget, you better avoid 4K gaming. For ca. 2K gaming, the most suitable dGPU depends on settings and possibly your chosen games but 4060, 4070 or 4080 might be right. 1080p gaming gives you a huge financial scope to choose quality and hardware for programming. Heck, you might even buy notebook and desktop then but why?

RAM: both your applications need RAM. 16GB is the absolute minimum. Heavy programming asks, or soon will ask, for 64GB; you better do not make compromises there, unless you already know that your specific kind of heavy programming never exceeds, and never will exceed, 32GB. (I cannot know if your jobs are so heavy that you would need even more than 64GB.)

SSD(s): buy large enough.
Posted by Theo
 - October 27, 2024, 15:36:36
Quote from: N-B on October 27, 2024, 11:17:04
Quote from: Worgarthe on October 26, 2024, 19:14:49Must be some kind of magic, no?
No, this is 100% stupidity, with a lot of space on the case, you can't put a penny port for 2.5-5Gbps in a 3500 euro model. And you don't need any external docking stations on the road. And you pay for them. USB-C has never been so reliable in cheap docking stations and adapters, and in expensive ones it costs money. I'm happy for you, but in general this is a stupid decision by Lenovo's development department for the "professional" series. What's the point of pouring from empty to empty, if it is obvious that the port should be there?


Experts, I'm having trouble deciding between buying a laptop or a desktop PC. My primary use will be gaming and heavy programming, and my budget is around $2500 maximus $3000 I can afford. Could you recommend a good laptop if there is one in the market? I'm looking to upgrade from my old laptop, so portability is a priority. Or, should I consider getting a mid-range laptop and use the remaining budget for a desktop PC?
Posted by Gastredner
 - October 27, 2024, 12:31:45
Quote from: Worgarthe on October 26, 2024, 13:39:06
Quote"heavy even for its size category"

3 kg is heavy these days for a desktop replacement workstation-class laptop? Gym membership isn't particularly expensive, just saying...

You don't need a gym membership for a 3kg laptop. It's ridiculous that weight and thickness that were common (and not super portable but just fine for most people) on much much weaker multimedia(!!) and entry-level gaming notebooks many years ago now get criticized on a high-end workstation notebook with twice or three times the power consumption. FACEPALM

Human anatomy and muscle strenghts has not changed since then. People who were easily able to transport a 3kg laptop back then, can do it in the exact same way now.

High-end notebooks weighed over 4kg more and were easily 4cm thick many years ago . I appreciate that we get them now at only 3kg and 3cm which is the sweetspot of portability and cooling.

Many customers don't need high or ultra portability, but prefer a space-saving and still easily portable desktop replacement with best performance or thermal headroom for quieter fans!

Posted by N-B
 - October 27, 2024, 11:17:04
Quote from: Worgarthe on October 26, 2024, 19:14:49Must be some kind of magic, no?
No, this is 100% stupidity, with a lot of space on the case, you can't put a penny port for 2.5-5Gbps in a 3500 euro model. And you don't need any external docking stations on the road. And you pay for them. USB-C has never been so reliable in cheap docking stations and adapters, and in expensive ones it costs money. I'm happy for you, but in general this is a stupid decision by Lenovo's development department for the "professional" series. What's the point of pouring from empty to empty, if it is obvious that the port should be there?
Posted by Worgarthe
 - October 26, 2024, 19:14:49
Quote from: N-B on October 26, 2024, 18:21:24Again, the lack of RJ45 with 2.5Gbps+ Ethernet is a shame. The owner will not be able to quickly connect a fast and stable cable network to the company's servers or NAS, other PCs at home without buggy external USB-C adapters. This is absolutely no good in this class.
You do realise that USB-C is a thing, right? And that you can use up to 10 Gbps ethernet over USB-C just fine, right?
 
I don't have an RJ45 port yet I use ethernet with my ThinkPad. Not just that but alongside I also run two external 4K displays, and get power delivery, all via one single cable connected to my laptop. Must be some kind of magic, no?
Posted by N-B
 - October 26, 2024, 18:21:24
All these reviews:
www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Victus-16-2024-laptop-review-RTX-4060-power-paired-with-long-runtimes.838561.0.html
www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Sword-16-HX-Laptop-Review-Gaming-powerhouse-stifled-by-an-unimpressive-screen.888247.0.html
www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-Helios-Neo-16-2024-review-Gaming-laptop-with-RTX-4070-and-DCI-P3-panel.834996.0.html
www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Legion-Pro-5i-laptop-review-Super-powerful-i7-14700HX-and-RTX-4060-performance.856842.0.html

clearly show that the 14700HX cannot produce more than 2800 points in Cinebench R15 at PL1=67W. That is, it shamefully loses even to the 7845HX, not to mention the king of mobile processors AMD R9 7945HX for 2(!) years already.

The question is - why did Lenovo put an Intel platform here, and not AMD, which is significantly faster by top-end 7945HX in computing tasks and at the same time significantly cooler?

The 7945HX, as has been shown many times in reviews, even from a 50-55W battery works faster than the 14700HX@70W+ from PSU.

For DDR5 5600 the memory is configured extremely poorly, the bandwidth efficiency is extremely low.

Most of the laptop's price went to the 4080-level dgpu, but even so, 32GB in the professional series from the factory at the end of 2024 already looks simply shameful for Lenovo - the minimum should be strictly 64GB+(or one 32 GB module for quick purchase and installation of a second one to immediately get the minimum required for this class today 64 GB) for that kind of money, as well as a minimum of 2TB of high-end SSD.

Again, the lack of RJ45 with 2.5Gbps+ Ethernet is a shame. The owner will not be able to quickly connect a fast and stable cable network to the company's servers or NAS, other PCs at home without buggy external USB-C adapters. This is absolutely no good in this class.

The weight is completely unacceptable, given the increased noise level even under office load.

Quote from: LL on October 25, 2024, 20:40:51For the price the screen is weak, do no cover the DCI-P3, DCI = Digital Cinema Initiative.  Should be important for video editors and this laptop has power for that job.
There's no point in DCI-P3 support on a screen without the True Black HDR 400+ label. And the lack of 95%+ AdobeRGB for photographers is a disgrace in this class.

It is also extremely shameful in the professional class, with a 2.5k screen (which is shameful in itself, because it should only be 4k/144Hz, because only 4k gives perfectly clear fonts and a video picture of ideal pixel sharpness - 2.5k is incompatible with neither 4k video nor fhd video - the question is why a model with a guaranteed blurry picture in 4k/fhd was installed in a "professional" laptop?) the webcam is only 1080p, even without 60fps support. Here there should only be 2.5k@60fps with autofocus.

And the list of minuses ends with the usually broken keyboard with the Esc, F1..F12 row narrowed by half for some reason, which greatly worsens the speed of working blindly after full-fledged desktop keyboards.

As a result, we get, as in the case of the Thinkbook G5, an incomprehensible device, it is unclear for what target audience it was made, at a clearly inflated price considering its real performance under long-term load and noise level, including office load.

Usually, such strange models are not bought by individuals at their own expense, but at the expense of the company - and who counts the company's money, right?
Posted by Worgarthe
 - October 26, 2024, 13:39:06
Quote"heavy even for its size category"

3 kg is heavy these days for a desktop replacement workstation-class laptop? Gym membership isn't particularly expensive, just saying...
Posted by Piter
 - October 26, 2024, 10:04:49
How about thinkpad t14 gen 5 amd with 8840u
Posted by LL
 - October 25, 2024, 20:40:51
For the price the screen is weak, do no cover the DCI-P3, DCI = Digital Cinema Initiative.  Should be important for video editors and this laptop has power for that job.
Posted by Redaktion
 - October 25, 2024, 19:39:35
The 130 W TGP graphics option makes this one of the fastest 16-inch workstations in Lenovo's portfolio. However, aspects like temperature and fan noise are warmer and noisier than average, respectively, as a result of the demanding GPU.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-P16-Gen-2-workstation-review-Heavy-with-supercharged-graphics.903804.0.html