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Posted by George
 - June 14, 2024, 23:26:01
Humm...

Here's a few general use cases where long battery life come in handy:

- Periodic use away from mains WITHOUT bringing additional weight of charger with you
- Access to mains is limited in both location and time duration

Both how long a device will operate on battery as well as recovery time when on mains are important to mobile users.

While I applaud the EU directive to have USBC on EVERYTHING I'm also NOT A FAN of destructive connectors sticking out of my devices!! Here the MAGJACK on my 2013 MBP has saved itself (and my Mac) more times than I can count!

Here in the US a inexpensive 12V 'lighter to USBC' >=65W adapter & suitable USBC cable can supply a quick charge to almost anything with a USBC port.
 
Posted by heffeque
 - June 01, 2024, 13:44:00
Quote from: NikoB on June 01, 2024, 09:22:44Again complete nonsense, because they do not have a keyboard and screen like laptops, and the body is much smaller in volume and therefore the cooling system is even noisier than that of laptops. And this is not an autonomous, self-sufficient laptop with batteries for at least 2-3 hours.
Well, I do know of people who go this route, either they have portable screens/keyboards because they use their miniPC in a portable way only a very small amount of times that doesn't justify having a laptop, or people that have a screen and/or keyboard at their usual destinations. It's not the most common use-cases, but they exist.
As for cooling systems... I guess that you live in the 90s or something. There are plenty of miniPC with great cooling solutions. Great current example, the HX99G. It has large fans, so they don't sound squeal when on high demanding situations. You are just misinformed, that's all.

Quote from: NikoB on June 01, 2024, 09:22:44Therefore, miniPC is the most idiotic solution from the PC camp.
You keep insulting people's choices for some reason, is it because you want people to internet-fight you or something?
In my case I'm going to buy a miniPC because 99% of the time my laptop is plugged into the TV. I'll keep my (old) laptop for those rare occasions I do use it as a laptop, and I'll just go ahead and buy myself a fairly decent miniPC (Atomman G7 Pt) that will have desktop performance, can run silently when used as HTPC, and is small enough to fit behind my TV. I don't see how that is an idiotic solution, but... you do you!

Quote from: NikoB on June 01, 2024, 09:22:44I have never stated this. But modern battery technology (despite 100500 promises over 20 years from upstart startups) is still bad and cannot keep modern laptops running at 80-100W for at least 12 hours with a minimum of 3000 cycles before capacity drops by 25%. For this you need a capacity of at least 1200 Wh, i.e. 10-15 times higher than current batteries. But if they don't allow planes with 100Wh+ batteries, how will they allow them into airplanes with 1000Wh+? This is the second problem. And it expires due to the explosiveness and enormous energy released by such a container (this is already close to the level of energy released by a hand grenade during an explosion). Batteries for 1200-1500 Wh should be absolutely safe in everyday life. There are simply no such technologies on the planet.
What are you talking about... granades...? Are you OK? It's about very efficient processors coupled with very efficient OS and fairly large batteries, not about having 80-100W laptops running on shoe-box-sized batteries.
As a separate note, personally I cannot wait for Sodium based solid-state electrolyte batteries to be a thing, but we are still a bunch of years away (hopefully sooner, but not soon enough).

Quote from: NikoB on June 01, 2024, 09:22:44Therefore, any laptop (especially modern monsters due to the deliberate cheating started by Intel/Nvidia with consumption, because technical processes do not give the necessary increase when moving to the next generation of ASML scanners and performance per 1W in the form of a graph becomes an increasingly flat curve, and not as before - an exponential growth curve) works normally only from the power supply, but it is in this mode that modern models with moronic USB-C power supply cannot be safely used on beds and sofas reclining, resting for right-handed people. because their feet are right on the left, where the moronic manufacturers install USB-C power ports, instead of placing them symmetrically on the left and right or in the back, or supplementing them with a reliable angled round plug, as has always been the case before.

The younger generation of designers in development departments are clearly idiots who have no qualifications in laptop ergonomics. I would fire them all for such decisions.
You seem very angry. Hope you are OK.
Posted by NikoB
 - June 01, 2024, 09:22:44
Quote from: heffeque on May 31, 2024, 12:04:08You totally ignored the "mini" in "miniPC", which use laptop HW, so they use very little power.
Again complete nonsense, because they do not have a keyboard and screen like laptops, and the body is much smaller in volume and therefore the cooling system is even noisier than that of laptops. And this is not an autonomous, self-sufficient laptop with batteries for at least 2-3 hours. Therefore, miniPC is the most idiotic solution from the PC camp.

Quote from: heffeque on May 31, 2024, 12:04:08Again... why are some people against other people wanting ultra-long lasting batteries?
I have never stated this. But modern battery technology (despite 100500 promises over 20 years from upstart startups) is still bad and cannot keep modern laptops running at 80-100W for at least 12 hours with a minimum of 3000 cycles before capacity drops by 25%. For this you need a capacity of at least 1200 Wh, i.e. 10-15 times higher than current batteries. But if they don't allow planes with 100Wh+ batteries, how will they allow them into airplanes with 1000Wh+? This is the second problem. And it expires due to the explosiveness and enormous energy released by such a container (this is already close to the level of energy released by a hand grenade during an explosion). Batteries for 1200-1500 Wh should be absolutely safe in everyday life. There are simply no such technologies on the planet.

Therefore, any laptop (especially modern monsters due to the deliberate cheating started by Intel/Nvidia with consumption, because technical processes do not give the necessary increase when moving to the next generation of ASML scanners and performance per 1W in the form of a graph becomes an increasingly flat curve, and not as before - an exponential growth curve) works normally only from the power supply, but it is in this mode that modern models with moronic USB-C power supply cannot be safely used on beds and sofas reclining, resting for right-handed people. because their feet are right on the left, where the moronic manufacturers install USB-C power ports, instead of placing them symmetrically on the left and right or in the back, or supplementing them with a reliable angled round plug, as has always been the case before.

The younger generation of designers in development departments are clearly idiots who have no qualifications in laptop ergonomics. I would fire them all for such decisions.
Posted by A
 - May 31, 2024, 18:15:28
Battery life used to be more important back when airplanes didn't have power outlets. Otherwise, if you are traveling by car you can just charge the laptop via 12v connector

The biggest issue for laptops other than gaming ones isn't battery life but not being crap. Laptops are only getting worse by the year as vendors sacrifice productivity for gimmicks no one asked for
Posted by heffeque
 - May 31, 2024, 12:04:08
Quote from: NikoB on May 31, 2024, 11:43:12
Quote from: Alexander_ on May 31, 2024, 10:42:36Why do you need a laptop if you always have power from the mains? Buy the PC then.
This is complete nonsense. The laptop can be used not only as a PC by connecting it to a monitor and keyboard, but independently from its power supply, I don't think about charging the battery at all. Moreover, you can put the laptop next to the bed in the morning or use it while reclining on the bed or sofa from the power supply.

That is why it is so important that the power plug is durable and does not stick idiotically to the side, as in the case of unreliable USB-C sticking out most often on the left (which is most inconvenient for right-handed people, who are the majority on the planet). Power should be at the back or an angled round plug or 2 balanced usb-c inputs on the left and right. But stupid and greedy manufacturers only output on one side, thereby deliberately increasing the risk of breaking the USB-C power socket. All angled USB-C adapters are crap.

A 17-18" laptop for home is much more convenient and flexible than a desktop PC, because it can be used and quickly moved to any room and anywhere.

A PC is only good if you sit at your desk all the time, which is not convenient for everyone.

In addition, a PC, even at rest, consumes many times more than laptops.

In this regard, Apple technology with idiotic USB-C power plugs sticking out perpendicular to the body is no better.

And it's rightly noted that under normal workload, even MacBooks won't be able to work for 4-6 hours, but at least 12 are needed. And even with 12 hours, the battery charge every day is at best 2 years and the battery will have to be changed. Why is this necessary when you can use the power supply 100% of the time at home in different places? As I have been doing for many years with all my laptops. Batteries for me are just a UPS so that I can finish my work calmly.
You totally ignored the "mini" in "miniPC", which use laptop HW, so they use very little power.

Who knew! Different people have different preferences and use cases, and some people want very long lasting batteries in their laptops, just as this article suggest!

Again... why are some people against other people wanting ultra-long lasting batteries?
Posted by NikoB
 - May 31, 2024, 11:43:12
Quote from: Alexander_ on May 31, 2024, 10:42:36Why do you need a laptop if you always have power from the mains? Buy the PC then.
This is complete nonsense. The laptop can be used not only as a PC by connecting it to a monitor and keyboard, but independently from its power supply, I don't think about charging the battery at all. Moreover, you can put the laptop next to the bed in the morning or use it while reclining on the bed or sofa from the power supply.

That is why it is so important that the power plug is durable and does not stick idiotically to the side, as in the case of unreliable USB-C sticking out most often on the left (which is most inconvenient for right-handed people, who are the majority on the planet). Power should be at the back or an angled round plug or 2 balanced usb-c inputs on the left and right. But stupid and greedy manufacturers only output on one side, thereby deliberately increasing the risk of breaking the USB-C power socket. All angled USB-C adapters are crap.

A 17-18" laptop for home is much more convenient and flexible than a desktop PC, because it can be used and quickly moved to any room and anywhere.

A PC is only good if you sit at your desk all the time, which is not convenient for everyone.

In addition, a PC, even at rest, consumes many times more than laptops.

In this regard, Apple technology with idiotic USB-C power plugs sticking out perpendicular to the body is no better.

And it's rightly noted that under normal workload, even MacBooks won't be able to work for 4-6 hours, but at least 12 are needed. And even with 12 hours, the battery charge every day is at best 2 years and the battery will have to be changed. Why is this necessary when you can use the power supply 100% of the time at home in different places? As I have been doing for many years with all my laptops. Batteries for me are just a UPS so that I can finish my work calmly.
Posted by Alexander_
 - May 31, 2024, 10:42:36
"10 hours of freelance work" is nothing more than a potential, not an actual job.
For example, during the day I use the maximum brightness of my laptop, edit images, almost always have 45+ tabs open in the browser (these are not just "information pages"), constantly open various office programs, and in the evening I can watch a movie.
With this type of use, autonomy can be reduced to just 2 hours (and sometimes even less).
That's what it's about.

2 hours of autonomous work and 20 minutes is a significant difference, for which people really want to pay.

You say "for what, if there is a socket"?
- This is already an argument in the other direction:
Why do you need a laptop if you always have power from the mains? Buy the PC then.
"Too big"? - In such a case buy a mini-PC or a all-in-one.
Posted by heffeque
 - May 30, 2024, 15:24:21
Quote from: Neenyah on May 23, 2024, 12:09:22heffeque, please don't get any of this wrong, I'm not "targeting" you as I respect you a lot as a fellow forum user here. I am just madly curious why is that 95743898234759832472653872 hours of work on a single charge something that Apple users boast about so proudly, like everything they do every single day is walking through Sahara desert and working at the same time so they simply have to be able to work 15 hours on one single charge.

Non-taken.
Your comment does take a very American point of view of work. You might not be, but it sounds like it as per the exploitation working conditions that you are describing (not once you mentioned any situation that wasn't considered exploitation in Europe).

"Do they really travel and work at the same time 10+ hours per day without any breaks to even eat something and rest for 10-20 minutes?"
I don't know where you took this from, but nobody said such a thing.
I'd personally love to not have to take the charger with me when I travel: less weight, less clutter, less worrying if I forgot the charger somewhere when leaving a place.

"If they drive how do they work on their laptop at the same time? Why is their laptop even running if they are behind a wheel?"
Again very American. It's super-comfortable to work on a train. No need to be on a car all day. I know trains are barely used compared to other countries. Trains do have plugs, but again: less weight, less clutter, less preparation time, less probabilities of forgetting the charger somewhere, less storing time... in summary much more convenient: take the laptop out, open it, work instantly, close it, store your laptop, done. Flights are not as comfortable as trains, but some work can be done before boarding (I personally don't recommend working during the flight).

If they don't drive what do they use to travel to be unable to charge the laptop in that vehicle as they work while they travel? A rickshaw? Macs can charge 50% in 40 minutes and 50% is roughly 5-9 hours of use, soooo...
Again: I don't want to take a charger with me when I travel. It's not the inability, it's the convenience.

Is it just continuous 10+ hours work?
Nope, it might not even be my work laptop. I can do a 5 day trip around Norway to see several clients, and use my personal laptop 2-3 hours a day when not working. Not everything is about working with the laptop 10+ hours per day.

Sounds like exploitation, worse than miners in coal mines
Yup, your examples do sound like exploitation. There are many options where great working conditions also lead to want very long battery times. Heck, even non-working related options where long battery hours are a big plus. But I guess that it's hard to imagine depending on where one lives and the day-to-day situations one's encountered.

Posted by RobertJasiek
 - May 27, 2024, 04:50:39
Quote from: ab on May 27, 2024, 00:57:39the best laptop is the one which meets all your needs.

In dream land. More modestly, it is reasonably secure and runs every needed software at acceptable speeds and battery life.
Posted by ab
 - May 27, 2024, 00:57:39
On one day, my Zenbook 14 (intel core ultra 185h) survived on the battery 6 h. I think it's pretty good result having attached for over 2 h second screen (4k), running multiple VMs,including windows 10 64bits, cisco routers and switches. Remaining 4h typical office staff- teams, ms office, edge etc. I know, it's not 15 h but can you even do this sort of task on mac? Don't want to even mention about latest security problems discovered on m series processors... the best laptop is the one which meets all your needs. By the way, my working day is 8h, but nobody even asks me to seat in the front of pc longer than 5-6h (I wouldn't do that anyway). I don't believe that additional time would be very productive.
Posted by Neenyah
 - May 23, 2024, 12:09:22
Quote from: heffeque on May 23, 2024, 11:32:00@Neenyah, This might surprise you, but not everyone works in an office all the time. Some people have to travel and might not have an outlet nearby all the time, or... Might even not want to be bothered to have to plug in the computer unless necessary, or their workload drains battery faster than just excel sheets... Or they might not want to carry a charger around to reduce carried weight/clutter.
  • So how was that small minority of people doing their work before Apple M1, so before 2020? Were they all unemployed or what?
  • Do they really travel and work at the same time 10+ hours per day without any breaks to even eat something and rest for 10-20 minutes?
  • If they drive how do they work on their laptop at the same time? Why is their laptop even running if they are behind a wheel?
  • If they don't drive what do they use to travel to be unable to charge the laptop in that vehicle as they work while they travel? A rickshaw? Macs can charge 50% in 40 minutes and 50% is roughly 5-9 hours of use, soooo...
  • Is it just continuous 10+ hours work?

Sounds like exploitation, worse than miners in coal mines (they have a break to eat at least) but hey, what do we Windows users know, we can take a break whenever we want...

(6 hours of battery life of actual work in Adobe apps here at 80% screen brightness btw, in case you wonder)


Quote from: RobertJasiek on May 23, 2024, 11:59:02
Quote from: Neenyah on May 22, 2024, 14:29:08who in the right mind

First, formulate your text without suggesting people's mental illness, then expect the contents of your text to be taken seriously.
Lol.


Edit: Forgot to add about this part:

Quote from: heffeque on May 23, 2024, 11:32:00Might even not want to be bothered to have to plug in the computer unless necessary, or their workload drains battery faster than just excel sheets...

Apple MacBook Pro 14 2023 M3 Pro review - Improved runtimes and better performance:
QuoteLoad (maximum brightness)    1h 17min

Meanwhile...

Lenovo ThinkPad T14 G4 AMD Laptop Review: Ryzen power in the compact ThinkPad:
QuoteLoad (maximum brightness)    1h 40min

heffeque, please don't get any of this wrong, I'm not "targeting" you as I respect you a lot as a fellow forum user here. I am just madly curious why is that 95743898234759832472653872 hours of work on a single charge something that Apple users boast about so proudly, like everything they do every single day is walking through Sahara desert and working at the same time so they simply have to be able to work 15 hours on one single charge.
Posted by RobertJasiek
 - May 23, 2024, 11:59:02
Quote from: Neenyah on May 22, 2024, 14:29:08who in the right mind

First, formulate your text without suggesting people's mental illness, then expect the contents of your text to be taken seriously.
Posted by heffeque
 - May 23, 2024, 11:32:00
@Neenyah, This might surprise you, but not everyone works in an office all the time. Some people have to travel and might not have an outlet nearby all the time, or... Might even not want to be bothered to have to plug in the computer unless necessary, or their workload drains battery faster than just excel sheets... Or they might not want to carry a charger around to reduce carried weight/clutter.

Those are crazy ideas, but who knows... some people actually set a big priority to battery life on a thin and portable device! Ludicrous!

@George, agreed.
Posted by George
 - May 23, 2024, 03:25:56
Disclaimer up front: This is NOT for work...

Keep in mind that those that are using WIN based devices will continue to do so and those that use Apple based devices will continue to do so.

Sure, if all your using your computer for is some casual surfing and/or media streaming a TABLET might be a better fit.

I regularly find myself "out in the wild" taking pictures and processing them on my laptop. (generally for 2-4 nights)
 
Then I have a choice as to upload them to my Social Media & cloud while out in the wild OR wait until I get home. I guess it all depends on how good (or NOT!) of a Cell connection I'm getting.

Keep in mind that MANY/MOST of these "battery run times" have DRASTIC 'power saving' features MAXIMIZED and most of us simply disable many/most of it and/or adjust the 'shut off timers' so it is not annoying.

Back in the days when I was working many of the staff were going from one meeting room to another all day for +10hrs (all without plugging in, lest they would be competing with others for outlets!).

So some of the WIN driven devices can keep up with the Apple stuff? Its about time.
Posted by Neenyah
 - May 22, 2024, 14:29:08
Quote from: heffeque on May 22, 2024, 13:59:28You can go ahead and look for laptop lists that meet other criterias that are more to your liking.

I don't really get why you complain about this list not adhering to your specific needs as if other people couldn't have other needs and find this list helpful.
Is he complaining? Who is seriously doing 8-hour long work without taking a 15-30 minute break once?

Who is doing an 8-hour long workday out in the wilderness without a single plug anywhere in their near proximity? How do they get internet connectivity there? Why would they voluntarily travel many hours each day to work at the top of the mountain or in the middle of some large desert?

Then the most important question - who in the right mind is doing any kind of longer work anywhere in any kind of urban area, such as at their desk in their office, with a plug being literally 20-30 cm away from their laptop but they think "Naaah, I'll keep working on battery, no time to pop the charger in, it's only 9 am."? And then they work their whole day at the office without taking a single break to go to the toilet or to eat something so their laptop simply cannot get charged not even for 10 minutes? And if it can, why would they immediately unplug it?

(Let's ignore the fact that most offices have multiple monitors and docks to connect laptops and provide power delivery to those same laptops.)

Or do people at home can't afford to pay their electricity bills so they have to have 15+ hours of battery life on a single charge (because they charge it at work)?

Please, name one single scenario, just one, where someone is 10+ hours away from any power outlet, like if they survive a plane crash deep in a jungle, and when their main thought is not to survive but to work, work, work, work. Wtf?

Edit: I'm not saying that long battery life is not something desirable, I just find it bizarre that it's the main focus of interest and PR to so many people. Perhaps they just cannot figure a way how to keep one charger at home and another at work so they are lost when they have to - plug it in once in a day. Or they really have to travel deep in the forest and then work there on their laptop. No clue...