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Posted by A
 - December 27, 2023, 21:46:12
Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:48:36It should offer not 256GB, but 256TB. That's when it gets serious. Like a 100TB+ SSD.
Bs of course, hardware requirements have been only going down all the time.
Posted by A
 - December 27, 2023, 21:32:43
Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:48:36Until HBM3+ comes to laptops and PCs
Yeah, I'm kinda happy you googled up a new term (HBM) and running with it around, but your average laptop CPU will not be able to fully utilize its bandwidth in any meaningful workload, so putting it in is pointless.

Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:48:36Remove old SO-DIMMs from the market at once, which are in bulk and cheap. This is the main selfish goal.
Nah, you still need to go and google some more, try "RAM trace length limit".

Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:48:36an insignificant trifle for kindergarten-level neural networks
Yeah, those "kindergarten networks" like 170B GPT 3.5

Quote from: NikoB on December 27, 2023, 20:48:36Local neural networks, which are really useful to the average person, require hardware that is 2-3 orders of magnitude more powerful than what is currently available on the market.
Man, your 2008 laptop isn't "what is currently available on the market".

GPT3.5-sized LLM running on 192Gb RAM Mac Studio.
youtu.be/Zm1YodWOgyU?t=269
Posted by NikoB
 - December 27, 2023, 20:48:36
The most shameful thing about these CAMMs is that they basically allow single-channel options.

Why do manufacturers need them? Remove old SO-DIMMs from the market at once, which are in bulk and cheap. This is the main selfish goal. These CAMMs do not provide any performance benefits, except for eliminating the backlog of DIMMs from the market for new models of mainstream laptops. They will still suffer from long and unreliable tracks to the memory controller in the processor and the frequencies will obviously be lower than the soldered memory, although it will also be of no use with the shameful 2 channels.

Until HBM3+ comes to laptops and PCs, there will be no sense - many cores are suffocating from slow RAM. Especially on the x86 platform, where the memory is shamefully slow even in top models.

Well, in fact, what is 256GB for a serious neural network? So, an insignificant trifle for kindergarten-level neural networks.

It should offer not 256GB, but 256TB. That's when it gets serious. Like a 100TB+ SSD.

Local neural networks, which are really useful to the average person, require hardware that is 2-3 orders of magnitude more powerful than what is currently available on the market.

Well, maybe today's children will live to reach such a level, given the dead end in silicon to which everything is inevitably heading. If there is a breakthrough with another computer architecture different from the classical Von Neumann.
Posted by A
 - December 27, 2023, 11:48:30
Quote from: A on December 27, 2023, 11:39:59The advantage of soldered RAM has been virtually insignificant in real life benchmarks.
False

Quote from: A on December 27, 2023, 11:39:59And Apple does it cause they don't have VRAM like proper gpus have.
False

Quote from: A on December 27, 2023, 11:39:59But that is no excuse for them to solder SSDs
Unrelated, you are jumping to a more convenient topic.
Posted by A
 - December 27, 2023, 11:39:59
Quote from: A on December 26, 2023, 23:50:14
Quote from: A on December 26, 2023, 23:18:03They don't want people to do cheap upgrades or repair their devices easily.
Soldered RAM is usually faster + can be soldered directly to CPU, like Apple does, to go around the trace length limitation.
CAMM memory will probably be competitive, as it's providing some benefits of soldered RAM while being replaceable. But SO-DIMM is probably going to be a thing of the past, at least in laptops.

The advantage of soldered RAM has been virtually insignificant in real life benchmarks. And Apple does it cause they don't have VRAM like proper gpus have. So you are stuck sharing the slower ram. But that is no excuse for them to solder SSDs
Posted by A
 - December 26, 2023, 23:50:14
Quote from: A on December 26, 2023, 23:18:03They don't want people to do cheap upgrades or repair their devices easily.
Soldered RAM is usually faster + can be soldered directly to CPU, like Apple does, to go around the trace length limitation.
CAMM memory will probably be competitive, as it's providing some benefits of soldered RAM while being replaceable. But SO-DIMM is probably going to be a thing of the past, at least in laptops.
Posted by A
 - December 26, 2023, 23:18:03
Quote from: vertigo on December 13, 2023, 22:39:13I'm curious to see if manufacturers switch to this and stop soldering or if they'll just come up with more excuses to continue doing so, proving that it wasn't just because of space and efficiency all along.

The standard allows for both soldering and non-soldering, and knowing manufacturers, they will pick the soldered versions intentionally. They don't want people to do cheap upgrades or repair their devices easily. Any excuse to solder. Hence why some have even soldered SSDs
Posted by vertigo
 - December 13, 2023, 22:39:13
I'm curious to see if manufacturers switch to this and stop soldering or if they'll just come up with more excuses to continue doing so, proving that it wasn't just because of space and efficiency all along.
Posted by Redaktion
 - December 11, 2023, 12:22:20
The CAMM2 standard has finally been finalized by JEDEC, offering laptop manufacturers a much more compact alternative to SO-DIMMs, which makes it more attractive not to solder RAM directly to the mainboard, but to allow users to upgrade it later.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Notebooks-with-up-to-256-GB-of-upgradeable-RAM-CAMM2-opposes-soldered-RAM.781889.0.html