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Posted by ssshjp
 - June 27, 2024, 22:47:28
Very good. Qualcomm not allowing reading SoC package power makes efficiency test a lot harder but this is still the most (and almost only) useful review so far.

For CPU perf/efficiency benchmark, Zen 4 can get 70-80% of Avalanche at 20w, which is decent. But in actual light daily usage, there is still a huge power difference between the ARM and efficient x86 processors, as expected. That's the reason why X1E/X1P should exist.
Posted by NikoB
 - June 27, 2024, 13:14:10
Quote from: Consumer_Not on June 26, 2024, 17:53:55Then it can be a real workhorse.
With a mass market share of 2% of strength. This also doesn't make sense. This is how a market share, where everything has already been divided, is not won.

We need to offer the average buyer something better than Windows+x86, for the same or less money. No one on the planet today is capable of this, otherwise Intel + AMD would have long ago lost the entire desktop and laptop market. AMD is at least clearly withdrawing from the x86 laptop and desktop market, because it did not even try in its best years since 2017 to sharply increase its market share by expanding production at TSMC. Although at that time this was obviously an extremely unprofitable strategy given the presence of Intel's cache. As a result, it waited until Intel itself was forced to bow to TSMC and now they are actually on equal terms in terms of technical process capabilities, i.e. AMD's chances will now rapidly melt like snow in June...
Posted by Consumer_Not
 - June 26, 2024, 17:53:55
The only real chance for a X Elite laptop to shine will be with a Linux OS.

Then all applications are compiled natively, as with all architectures in Linux, with no garbage translation layers to slow it down/increase the consumption.

Then it can be a real workhorse.
Posted by NikoB
 - June 25, 2024, 13:42:31
Winning a decent share in a market niche, in the first few years, when there is a powerful player with an overwhelming market share, is always a deliberate loss-making operation during these years, i.e. with maximum benefit for buyers. It is obvious that neither the management/beneficiaries of Qualcomm, nor the laptop manufacturers, whom they must sponsor for this enterprise, are NOT ready for such sacrifices, which means everything is in vain a priori.
Posted by NikoB
 - June 25, 2024, 13:39:21
No matter how much false marketing tries, prices that are several times higher than real demand will put everything in its place.

I have already written many times, without having its own ecosystem (like Apple) other company trying to get into the x86 market (by the way, it is interesting why Intel does not attack everyone who tries to apply x86 processing, as it did before - apparently it does not consider Apple, and especially Qualcomm, as competitors, and AMD is their eternal antitrust gasket, which they will never let go bankrupt), there is only one chance - full compatibility, plus performance NOT lower than that of Intel/AMD processors, with the same level of consumption and no more. And low prices. Which in reality no other option has. Therefore, their chances of gaining a foothold in the mass x86 market are negligible.
Posted by vladteapa
 - June 25, 2024, 08:27:28
It's weird how almost nobody is talking about the price.

Most, if not all, 32GB RAM configurations are well above 2000$. That's an insane mark-up for a soldered RAM machine that has trouble running native x86 software. Pretty sure Zen 5 and whatever Intel is cooking next is going to bury this. This chip is not even that competitive with current gen x86 chips.

This in not an Apple M competitor chip as it cannot run fanless and windows is not MACOS.
Posted by gogoarm
 - June 24, 2024, 12:44:23
Quote from: NikoB on June 20, 2024, 19:37:19In the multi-threaded test, the CBR24 supposedly won the M3 Max, but in the energy efficiency picture at the top of the list is no longer the M3 Max, but the simple M3 (the author probably hoped that no one would notice the substitution), which loses to any AMD in the multi-threaded test exactly 1.5 times, and the M3 Max there is no even multi-threaded energy efficiency in the results, which means that it is below par and loses even to hot Intel chips.
that's because they have never measured M3Max in Cinebench 2024, lol

They have efficiency numbers for Cinebench R23 w/screen off though
M3 382 points/W
M3Max 306 points/W
155H 242 points/W

if you don't know why M3Max is less efficient than M3 then you shouldn't be here at all in the first place (spoiler - because it has much more to power)
Posted by gogoarm
 - June 24, 2024, 12:05:31
Quote from: Consumer_Not on June 23, 2024, 13:13:07is more efficient, faster,
yeah if your workflow is running benchmarks 100% of the time
Quote from: Consumer_Not on June 23, 2024, 13:13:07by Phaux
guy is a nobody
amd shills are ready to trust anyone as long as he is in their echo chamber
Posted by Consumer_Not
 - June 23, 2024, 13:13:07
Actually, when previous gen Zen 4 is configured to the same optimum TDP for the X Elite, the AMD is more efficient, faster, and runs everything... Not to mention the just released Zen 5 which is even better.

So the conclusion of this review is simply wrong.

Review on Youtube by Phaux. Impressive! But Also Not?! Snapdragon X Elite
Posted by gobogob
 - June 22, 2024, 18:12:25
nice vid explaining why the same X Elite machine can have a million different benchmarks (spoiler - Windows usual power plan/power mode fuckery)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDRV9eEJOk8
Posted by Somebody
 - June 22, 2024, 11:45:31
Andreas Osthoff — if you are the editor of this article, tell me how you calculated points/per watt for multi core. Did you take Cinebench 2024 as a reference? If so, what kind of formula did you use? Cause, I am getting different numbers....
Posted by Somebody
 - June 22, 2024, 11:37:12
Notebookcheck, how came the qualcomm chip score almost identical numbers (14000) in Geekbench 6 multi, even though power levels were different (50w, 45w, 35w, 20w)?

How???
Posted by chris@amd
 - June 22, 2024, 09:39:35
Let's not be naive, apple M1 came out almost 4years ago and it was compared to 2019-2020 cpus. intel was in 4core-10xx era and zen was in infancy as zen2 was quite new and not widely available. M1 implementation in the time was nothing short of marvelous. not only was better in performance but way better in efficiency and there wouldn't be any future x86 in mac ecosystem so switch was inevitable. also remember macOS carries way less baggage than windows. organizational/pro software almost non existent in macOS and most developer software/kits used are open source. which is in contrast to windows world. so adaptation in mac world happened due to superior silicon and no future alternative and less effort. these are not met in current day windows world. there would be upcoming and superior x86 SOCs. difficult to change/modify multi billion dollar x86 software developed in the past and far more legacy closed software. there is also gaming as lots of windows users are casual gamers.
so let's face it, snapdragon is not M1 and certainly windows is not mac. i believe if apple not started 4 years ago it wouldn't stand a chance today against current x86 progress specifically AMD. snapdragon is a web browsing/media consumption chip and does it very well and needs to be much cheaper to be attractive.
Posted by mudahar
 - June 22, 2024, 07:50:02
The response here seems mildly uninformed.... But it is doing really well imo. Looking at battery life to performance its doing really well. Emulation is proven to be really good only 10-15% nerf but otherwise very powerful for its power usage. Battery life is really strong, gaming is still where it struggles but its not too far off from what Intel is doing in their integrated GPU. I think we'll start seeing a lot more driver optimization now that its out here and will get tons of adoption similar to the days of M1. I'm sure gaming performance will continue to improve through driver optimization as well.
Posted by Neenyah
 - June 21, 2024, 15:55:27
Extremely recommended read, btw: Qualcomm AI/Copilot PCs don't live up to the hype - Watch what they do, not what they say (Jun 18, 2024)

QuoteWhat is Qualcomm hiding and why? Lets start out with the why side, it is easier. The x86 emulation sucks and they know it. Since x86 compatibility is a key marketing message from both players, they want you to believe your software will just run, they have to hide this failing at all costs. Let me split a hair here, the silicon is actually quite good on the x86 emulation front, the team didn't forget everything they did at Apple but coupled with Windows it, well, ends up sucking. Actually that is a bit unfair, lets just say the end user device sucks and not apportion blame to any one part.

When questioned, Qualcomm spokespeople will fall back to to a talking point about apps that they have tweaked/validated/worked on and those run fine, fast-ish, and without hiccups. This is true but that list is mighty short and chances you have a few apps that will blow up. Games, well, again they go back to casual games running fine which they probably do. Real games don't and most non-tweaked games don't either, casual or not. Qualcomm knows this and they are desperate to hide it.

QuoteAnd don't get me started on drivers. Got any hardware that isn't brand new? A printer bought during Covid perhaps? Scanners? Low level tools? Antivirus/antimalware? Got a game with an anti-cheat thread? VPN? This stuff WILL break on the Qualcomm ARM PCs unless they have tweaked it and chances are they haven't. And won't. These companies are desperate for this knowledge to not get out, and they are making sure it doesn't by making sure only tame reviewers and fluffy youtubers get devices. Even they they won't have time to dig in to the defects they do find.

This is all to back the official message of fast and compatible, one of which is kinda true. Compatibility is not good enough, games break on the consumer side and corporate apps are hit and miss. Worse yet there wasn't a single mention of remote management since the November 2023 reveal. If you actually test the product you will find this out and possibly write it up before the official message has a chance to be repeated enough to 'become truth'. Don't believe the hype.